Ignition parts and supply TR6

[TonyC]

One of our Northumbria members has an ongoing problem with a reluctance to start, which culminated Sunday with a ride home on a flatbed. It appears that dizzy cap, points, rotor arm, capacitor etc show premature failure. Intermotor are his parts of choice  - maybe choice is not exactly correct, these are the parts he is supplied with from the usual sources. However I am sure there are members out there who have good experiences and recommendations for ignition parts supply and would appreciate a heads up. Assume we are going to buy the lot - dizzy cap, rotor, HT leads, Capacitor (condenser), points, coil. What is the best and from which source?

Many thanks,

TonyC

 

[RogerH]

Hi Toy,

 

first and only port of call  is Martin Jay  the Distributor Doctor as advertised in TRAction

https://www.distributordoctor.com/

 

Roger

[Crawfie]

My 6 has:

DD points, condenser, dizzy cap and rotor

NGK plugs

NGK coil

Magnecor HT leads.  

I had no end of problems with my car when i got her @ 10years ago. A trip to Stuart sorted the car out and i had a lesson from the "headmaster" about where to get decent quality parts. 

Any new LUCAS stuff....put it straight in the bin. I would imagine Intermotor stuff is the same quality. 

 

[CharlieBubbles]

+1 for Magnecor KV85 leads; they’re expensive for a reason!

[Jules TR6]

1 hour ago, CharlieBubbles said:

+1 for Magnecor KV85 leads; they’re expensive for a reason!

A few Q's :

- Can these be used with ballast setup (1.5 ohm coil) ?

- Can these be used with either electronic ignition or points (and with a ballast system/coil) ?

Basically just buy and fit and they'll be fine, or they need other specialist components, i.e. a different coil etc?

How would they be noticeably better than say these, with normal spirited driving (or no real-world difference at all?) :

https://simonbbc.com/Triumph-MG-Austin-Healey-6-Cylinder-HT-Leads-8mm-Double-Silicone

they say they have a 'carbon ferroflex core' what's the carbon all about, do Magnecor use carbon?

Edited October 3, 2023 by Jules TR6

[RobH]

Expensive snake oil.  Straight copper works just as well (though some electronic ignitions don't like that and need resistive leads).

[Jules TR6]

2 minutes ago, RobH said:

Expensive snake oil.  Straight copper works just as well (though some electronic ignitions don't like that and need resistive leads).

...ok, the carbon are more resistive - and so are often paired with electronic ignition systems.

The PowerSpark one's I linked too are 1/4 of the price of the Magnecor KV85's, so if they 'work well' they should be fine. What is 'not working well'? - misfiring, or misfiring when hot, or something else..??

My TR6 has a ballast resistor, and a compatible coil. I'm not sure what this means in terms of spark power through electronic ignition ...and if the more resistive carbon leads (with a ballast system) are not a good idea.

Snake oil or a can of worms?

[RobH]

All the wires have to do is transfer electrons from one place to another while not allowing them to leak out the sides.  Any wire with a decent conductive core and a decent insulation jacket will do that.  The wires are made resistive to lengthen the rise-time of the spark to reduce radio frequency interference.  A resistive spark plug does the same thing and you don't need both.  If there is too much series resistance the spark energy will be reduced. 

Maybe you get better longevity if you pay more - but I am doubtful about that. 

Ballasted or unballasted  supply to the coil is not affected in any way by the HT leads or vice versa. Both systems provide similar spark energy in normal running but ballasted will give a better spark for starting if the battery voltage is low, because the coil is over-driven during cranking. 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by RobH

[Jules TR6]

24 minutes ago, RobH said:

All the wires have to do is transfer electrons from one place to another while not allowing them to leak out the sides.  Any wire with a decent conductive core and a decent insulation jacket will do that.  The wires are made resistive to lengthen the rise-time of the spark to reduce radio frequency interference.  A resistive spark plug does the same thing and you don't need both. 

Maybe you get better longevity if you pay more - but I am doubtful about that. 

Ballasted or unballasted  supply to the coil is not affected in any way by the HT leads or vice versa. Both systems provide similar spark energy in normal running but ballasted will give a better spark for starting if the battery voltage is low, because the coil is over-driven during cranking. 

 

 

This is the most concise and best info I've had for ages. Makes total sense. Many thanks!!

So my normal (non-resistor) plugs and carbon HT leads are probably a good combo.

I also read that a more resistive HT lead can absorb any energy not dissipated by the plug, and prevent it bouncing back to the distributor. What the truth of that is I'm not sure! - but the OP might be interested in that 'fact' in terms of distributor parts failure. Though I would 2nd others here, and just go straight to the Distributor Doctor - and get everything the OP needs from him.

As to the last part of your info, can a ballast compatible coil be damaged by cranking? - if it's being over-driven - and might that lead suddenly to misfire, a new coil that was ok for a short while then just couldn't take being over-driven during cranking and now is damaged?

[RobH]

2 minutes ago, Jules TR6 said:

can a ballast compatible coil be damaged by cranking? - if it's being over-driven

No. Cranking is only for a few seconds so the low resistance coil can easily handle that.  Since the battery voltage will dip at the same time due to the starter current being drawn, there will only be a small degree of over-driving anyway.  It's designed to work that way. 

What a ballasted coil won't take kindly to is being driven with full voltage all the time. It will then overheat and most likely fail. 

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

I have always made or converted my own HT lead sets.    
As stated Simon Bloc offer products to diy.  https://simonbbc.com/ht-leads/make-your-own/
You are too far away to borrow my HT lead terminal crimping pliers.   Bought specifically to make TR5/6 ht lead sets many years ago.

they offer simple form blocks to crimp HT lead ends, you can use in a vice or mole grips.   https://simonbbc.com/sparkrite-make-your-own-7mm-and-8mm-ht-leads-crimping-and-finishing-tool/
 

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[Andy Moltu]

Beware **** condensors and rotor arms.  Either get from a reputable supplier or go to electronic ignition.

The same applies to fake NGK spark plugs. Avoid flea bay.

I made mine for the 4a from an Accuspark kit. The 6 has Magnecor - been on for ages but not sure if they are better than the ones I made.

[CharlieBubbles]

Vv interesting as ever! My inherited ones were pretty shot (cracked insulation where they were bent, a couple where the lead had pulled off the connector) so in a fit of enthusiasm went for Magnecors to cross something off the list for a while (there was a lot of other stuff that needed doing…still is). Definitely could have done it cheaper, but definitely haven’t had to worry about it since, so I’m happy!