Starter issues?

[tjs]

Hi All. Hi torque starter (type attached in photo). About 12 yr old. 

Issue: just a click on key turn. Fully charged battery, tried another battery. Checked all earths, bypassed ignition switch with 12v from batt straight to signal spade on starter, still just a click, bypassed+ve battery strap, still same issue. After the click, if i hold the key on, draws a large amount of current. Car has been laid up after a very successful Italy trip in October. Never had this issue before. Tried to roll the car in 4th, moves freely can turn engine over. Tried to jog the pinion while firing it and rolling in 4th but still doesn't turn. 

 

With all of the above, starter out next? Or have i forgotten anything?

Cheers

Alex

Edited May 7, 2023 by tjs

[RobH]

Those starters can draw circa 40A just to operate the internal solenoid so a high drain is not unexpected. When the solenoid operates it drives the pinion forward into mesh and at the end of the travel a contact closes to power the motor.  It sounds as though that contact may not be  'making'  so yes, motor out is the next step.  It may be that something is sticking preventing full travel, or something may have gone wrong with the electrical contact.  There are old threads on here describing what may be found - sometimes much corrosion ( pictures on page 2 of the link). 

 

eg

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by RobH

[tjs]

Cheers Rob. Will take a look. Access looks extremely tight, like I have to get the PI plenum off at least if it's going to come out the top or exhaust off if it's going to come out the bottom? 

Alex

[Mike C]

2 hours ago, tjs said:

Cheers Rob. Will take a look. Access looks extremely tight, like I have to get the PI plenum off at least if it's going to come out the top or exhaust off if it's going to come out the bottom? 

Alex

Painful! Is there anyway you can safely connect jumper leads directly to the starter terminals then touch their ends on  the battery. That should tell you if the starter motor itself is faulty by bypassing everything between the battery and starter motor.

[Stephen H]

Hi Alex

I had the same issue with my high torque starter. It turned out to be the contacts in the solenoid, in my case the copper disc on the plunger part was badly pitted. Replacements parts are readily available on eBay and cheap, just search for Nippon Denso solenoid. 

Cheers Stephen

[rcreweread]

Mike - if you find the motor is not realistically salvageable, and you are not obsessed with having to have a high torque motor, I have a few traditional OE Lucas starter motors for sale at £115  - they have been fully reconditioned - see my listing in Classifieds - link here:

https://www.tr-register.co.uk/classified/6051/TR56-Reconditioned-OE-Lucas-Starter-Motors-For-Sale

If interested, please PM me

Cheers Rich

[tjs]

Tried that Mike. Bypassed everything i could including the high power cable and the ignition cable (to my surprise with quite a clack on the spade connector! Didn't realise it would pull 40A for the solenoid!).

Looks like I'll next be stripping the unit to have a look. Best to come out the top or our the bottom we think? 

 

As for high torque (low speed), I've been thinking about going back to original, would prefer high speed. Don't ask me why, just always thought the car cranks so slowly even with a hefty battery.

[Mike C]

You'll need to have a good look and think a bit before removing the starter- it's harder than most people expect- depends on the exhaust piping layout , have modifications been made  at some time in the car's history to get better access to the starter mounting bolts ( I modified bolt access under the the transmission cover years ago for better access) etc.

I've kept my original starter because of the higher cranking speed , after a long period of inactivity my car tends to need all the cranking it can get before it first kicks over.

[astontr6]

17 hours ago, tjs said:

Tried that Mike. Bypassed everything i could including the high power cable and the ignition cable (to my surprise with quite a clack on the spade connector! Didn't realise it would pull 40A for the solenoid!).

Looks like I'll next be stripping the unit to have a look. Best to come out the top or our the bottom we think? 

 

As for high torque (low speed), I've been thinking about going back to original, would prefer high speed. Don't ask me why, just always thought the car cranks so slowly even with a hefty battery.

'car cranks so slowly even with a hefty battery'. How good was the earthing on the SM? When I fitted a HT/SM I had to wire wool the engine plate to get rid of the rust and black paint and run a reamer though the mounting holes. Then run a earthing braid up to the bulk head earth from the bottom securing bolt. There was an instant massive improvement in cranking speed. 

Bruce. 

[john.r.davies]

I don't know about TRs but small chassis Triumphs were factory fitted with an earth return from block to chassis.   The earthing cable was a length of wire mesh, which might have been galvanised once, but by today has either corroded away or been forgotten in previous engine work.   Without it, the starter tries to earth via the transmission or the choke cables, which have been known to get hot!

Fit a length of cable the same size as your starter cable - it has to carry the same current! - between the block and, preferably, the battery earthing post, although anywhere on the body shell would do.

John