minisport Posted December 24, 2018 Report Share Posted December 24, 2018 hello I am Siebe from Belgium. I went to see a triumph tr3 last week but I noticed some strange things. It is a tr3 that was first registered in America in 1958. It is a small mouth and does not have separate indicators at the back. The chassis has the drum brakes in front. Has no overdrive. the identification plate is: TS22449 LO The enginenumber is : TS68186 E Could it be that it is a 1956 car (drum brakes, no seperate indicators ) with an other engine and wrong identification plate? Is there someone who can give me more information about this? Best regards Siebe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted December 24, 2018 Report Share Posted December 24, 2018 (edited) I would agree, drum brakes was only 1956, & commission No. would be around 10000. Maybe it's a 56 chassis with a 58 body on top ? check to see which rear axle it has, that changed along with drums to discs, & separate master cylinders. Bob. Edited December 24, 2018 by Lebro Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roger murray-evans Posted December 24, 2018 Report Share Posted December 24, 2018 Siebe, If you have a body with no seperate rear indicators, a small mouth front apron and a chassis with drum front brakes, that suggests an early TR3 as Bob suggests. The simplest excuse for the commission/engine numbers would be a common engine swap and perhaps a previous US owner, having more TR3a commission plates than TR3 commission plates!.The long term problem will be, if you do buy the car, having to explain the incorrect commission number to someone looking for an TR3 without an identity crisis? Good luck Roger M-E Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike ellis Posted December 24, 2018 Report Share Posted December 24, 2018 Siebe, It would help to see some pictures, perhaps a link to where it is for sale. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR 2100 Posted December 24, 2018 Report Share Posted December 24, 2018 Siebe, Over the 60-year life of the car, many things are likely to have changed, so look at the items that are not easy to change. The rear panel is welded on so is the least likely to change. Indicators on the rear panel were introduced for the TR3A. Disc brakes were fitted from approx. TS 13045 and I cannot see why anyone would retro fit drum brakes to a disc brake car. The front panel can easily be changed and many owners prefer the TR3 small mouth style. The engine is easily changed. Be aware that the official TR3/3A model change at 22014 was not 'clean' and a few TR3 features were carried over for a short time. Your car may be a restoration containing the best parts from two cars. That's been done many time. It looks like the body and chassis are from a 1956 TR3 but with a later chassis plate. On the bulkhead, above the battery, there should be two plates. Check these numbers. One is an EB body number - this should be the same, approximately, as the TS identification plate. The other will be a much larger number and this can be dated approximately. Also, it may show on a trace of the original specification (available to club members from the TR Register TR2/3/3A/3B Registrar, or from BL Heritage). It looks to me as if you have a combination of two cars and although research will identify some of the story, it's unlikely you will ever be able to find out the whole story. AlanR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
minisport Posted December 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2018 Thank you very much for all the explanantion. here is the link https://www.2dehands.be/autos/triumph/overige-modellen/triumph-tr3-478065746.html Best regards Siebe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR 2100 Posted December 25, 2018 Report Share Posted December 25, 2018 Siebe, Officially, it is what the registration document says it is. In reality, it's often impossible to tell exactly what a car is. The sidescreen fixings are the later TR3A dzus-type - that change happened a few thousand cars after the TR3A was introduced. Only comment I would add is that the rivet holding the identification plate looks to be larger than the original rivet so it looks like the plate has been removed and re-fixed. If the car is not too far away, you could check the two numbers on plates just above the battery (and just below the vent lid). AlanR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted December 25, 2018 Report Share Posted December 25, 2018 Just looking at the link, things I observe are: TR3A front bumper, high port head with H6 carbs, Wiper motor fixings on the RH side (near commission No. Plate) indicating early TR3 Boot lid has handle (TR3A) not Dzus (TR3), Commision No. plate is the later type, not original to that body. it should be much bigger. Sidescreen fixings are later Dzus type (I am actually changing mine to Dzus as we speak so not unusual) The text describes it as an early TR3, & I guess that is what it is, but with the wrong (later) commision No. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
minisport Posted December 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2018 I want to thank everyone for their input! I will think about it before I make a decision. What do you think of the asking price? The floors are bad but the sills are still good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John McCormack Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 (edited) Looks to me to be a very early TR3A with a couple of TR3 features. For a 3A: The last TR3 was Comm 22013 approx. That Comm plate is probably original. This is the most telling feature. It has the high port head and carbies. 3A sidescreen fasteners, although this changed during the 3A production. 3A bumper and bootlid. For a 3: It has TR2/3 doors, with 3A sidescreen fasteners. Maybe the doors were left over and used on the first 3As. TR3 apron and grille. The gearbox dipstick/filler hole in the gearbox tunnel. 2s and 3s had this hole and it changed during 3A production and as a very early 3A it might be standard. Price wise it is too much in my view. The car needs a thorough probably body off rebuild and new floors and paint aren't cheap. It isn't a rare car and has no particularly desirable features. But it looks straight and there is no reason it couldn't be a fantastic car with money and time. Edited December 27, 2018 by John McCormack Quote Link to post Share on other sites
j-eichert Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 In my eyes - having restored a "wrecking yard special" - anything bolt-on may have been changed in the past or prior to selling in in order to sell a complete car. So forget about bumpers, sidescreen fasteners, high-port heads, gearbox tunnel etc - The engine was changed or replaced in the past - the original engine number should be between 22449 and maybe 23xxx. TS68xyz is definitely not original engine. - You can see the bolts for fixing areoscreens below the windscreen - they were standard until TS32833 (June 58) -> so this would be correct for an early TR3A or a real TR3 - The boot floor is "early" - The rear panel seems to be correct for a early/mid TR3 without separate indicators: Rear looks as prior to TS16473 (Feb. 57) - The wiper motor on the right side was standard until TS12567 (July 56) So in my eyes many "not easy to modify"- details suggest, that this is a real TR3. There were several upgrades/ repairs like engine swap and change of side screens… It will for sure be a full restoration - it may be worth the money if the frame is ok - the body looks quite ok. Regards Johannes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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