Quality problem

[Lebro]

I am in the throws of stripping & re-building front suspension on a friends TR3A

We obtained all the required bushes etc from Rimmers, all was going well till we came to fit the Lockwasher 115701 part No 95 in the Rimmers blown up diagram.

 

This is the last thing to go onto the trunnion pegs before the nut, & it is supposed to be an interference fit over the splines on the pegs. By forcing over these splines the washer is locked to the peg, & cannot turn, thus forcing the bearing surface to be in the right place, & not between the nut & the washer.

Well the 4 examples sent to us were a loose fit over the splines, & so in my opinion not usable.

We re-used the original washers which worked just fine. (the originals also had a step cut on the outside edge which held the rubber sealing ring in place - the new ones did not have this.

 

Happy to fill in the Quality form if someone can point me towards it, a quick search on here & the main site did not reveal it's whereabouts !

 

Bob.

Edited December 1, 2017 by Lebro

[TR5tar]

Hi Bob,

 

The PQI form is on the main TRR site, but it's not easy to locate. It's listed under BST. Anyhow, here's a link: http://www.tr-register.co.uk/pqi

 

Cheers, Darren

[RogerH]

Hi Bob,

have you spoken to Rimmer about the problem.

 

I'm sure this problem was present earlier this year. It was 'resolved' by the owner fitting the old washers.

 

I'll pop into Moss in the next few days and see what they have.

 

Are you referring to item #108 https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/steering-suspension/front-suspension/front-suspension-tr2-3a-tr4.html

 

Roger

[Lebro]

Hi Roger.

Yes, 108 is the one. we went to Rimmers because they had a "Black Friday" sale on.

 

I am quite happy using the old ones - there was nothing wrong with them.

 

No we have not spoke to Rimmers - was not sure if that was the recommended procedure what with PQI & all.

 

Will do whatever you think we should.

 

Bob.

[RogerH]

Hi Bob,

the process is to speak to the supplier and see what they say.

If it looks as though they acknowledge the problem and suggest they are going to fix it then fine.

 

if you feel they are not listening or you want us to follow it up then complete the form and send it through.

 

As I mentioned earlier I'll pop into Moss and see what they have on offer. It could be a pandemic of dodgy washers.

 

Roger

[Stoker]

You are not alone Bob I recently ordered the 3 rubber grommets that go where the heater fan assy bolts to the bulkhead.

Not only were they so thick and rigid that it was impossible to fit them but also the hole where the piece of metal tube goes was far too small. I managed to get by using 2 of the old ones but on the other one I had to open up the hole with a rotary file and cut the grommet in half.

Over the years I have spent a lot of money with Rimmers and this is not the first time they have caught me out, so never, never again

 

John

[RogerH]

Hi John,

Rimmers are part of the TRR PQI scheme.

 

If you have problems forward a form to the team.

 

Can't promise any results but we will talk to them and all the other suppliers as well.

 

Roger

[Hamish]

I have just bought the same items together with new 3 deg trunnions.

Not got near to fit them tho.

Can you explain the issue as Id just fit them presuming theyd be ok

 

H

Edited November 30, 2017 by Hamish

[Lebro]

The issue is explained up in post No.1.

Basically the hole in the middle is too big, it is supposed to be a very tight fit onto the splines of the trunnion peg so that it cannot rotate.

If the hole is too big then it can rotate, & may well do so, & in doing so will rub against the nut (which these days is a nyloc as the trunnion pegs do not come with a split pin hole ) (& no you can't drill one because the metal is hardened) so worst case the nut may slowly undo it's self.

 

Bob.

[Hamish]

Oh ok

Thanks bob Ill have a look on the bench as I have trunnions in the same order.

Does the inner lip of the lock washer- face the trunnion/wish bone or the nut ?.

[Lebro]

It faces the trunnion / wishbone, One of the thrust washers (with groves in it) sits on the protruding lip.

 

Bob.

[RogerH]

Hi Bob,

just back from Moss. With some help from the counter staff I have done a trial fit of a 3 degree trunnion and a washer.

There are two numbers for the washers - one is NCA and the other is for the later trunnion.

 

The washer would be an interference as I couldn't push it on.

 

I don;t know if the earlier washer and or 0 degree trunnion would have caused a problem but the later set up doesn't

 

I don't know what Rimmers supplied you.

 

 

 

134320 & 133838/9 are good from Moss

 

Roger

Edited December 1, 2017 by RogerH

[Lebro]

Spoke to customer service man at Rimmers this morning, he agreed that they "were not made to the part No."

We got a refund, & they will be checking all remaining stock. He was not aware that the problem had come up before.

 

Bob.

[RogerH]

Thanks Bob,

that's Rimmer organised and Moss are already there.

 

I wonder where they will crop up next

 

Roger

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Hi Roger.

Yes, 108 is the one. we went to Rimmers because they had a "Black Friday" sale on.

 

I am quite happy using the old ones - there was nothing wrong with them.

 

No we have not spoke to Rimmers - was not sure if that was the recommended procedure what with PQI & all.

 

Will do whatever you think we should.

 

Bob.

Bob,

Yes the inside diameter of the lock washer should be an interference fit on the spline of the trunnion pin.

 

The lock washer you have described with the outer flange is a 134320 from TR4 - https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/washer-locking-134320.html To fit/use it correctly you need the narrower rubber seal 134319 and the shim 134293. see items 105 onwards https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/steering-suspension/front-suspension/front-suspension-tr2-3a-tr4.html

 

Historically - It was the only style supplied by Cox & Buckles for many a year.

Cheers

Peter W

[Hamish]

Hi

Just had a quick look at what Rimmers sent me

I have what appears to be 2x 3 degree trunnions that are handed.

One with drilled threads ( for split pins ?) but no grease/oil nipple.

The other is plain no drilling but with nipple

 

The lock washers are too tight to go on to the splined area by hand. Thus I suppose the pull on when tightening nut.

These are the pics

Apart from asking for the missed grease nipple I dont think its worth swapping a trunnion so I have a matched pair. Or should I !

[Alec Pringle]

I certainly wouldn't be fitting an unmatched pair of trunnions, no way, but that's just a personal attitude . . . . . and by the same token I'd be getting them from Moss, or Rev's, or TRE, or Bitz, or TR Shop, or whoever I feel I can rely on to supply me with pukka product rather than a cack handed pair of mismatches.

 

At the risk of stating the obvious, a gently driven road car might not justify such attention to detail, any car used competitively deserves all the attention to detail that you can muster . . . . .

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Lebro]

Hi Hamish.

 

The lockwasher you have got looks correct, & yes, they are pulled onto the splines as you tighten up the nut.

The trunnion with the splitpin holes is probably either older than the other (NOS?) or just a different manufacture.

The modern ones do not have the holes, & are supplied with nyloc nuts.

Mine did not come with grease nipples, I re-used the old ones.

It is worth making sure that there is a good seal between the body, & the bottom plate (where the grease nipple screws in)

if not grease will simply escape from the gap. Your "no nipple" one looks as if it will be OK.

 

easy to soft solder around the edge to seal if in doubt - do it before filling with grease !

 

 

Bob.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Lebro

[RogerH]

Hi Hamish,

the only thing stopping them from being a matched pair is the lack pf split pin hole in the LH pin.

 

As the special washer is there to keep it all in place you can use the Nylok nut soa split pin is not required for either side.

 

The special washer is PUSHED onto the spline by the nylok nut.

 

The grease nipple from the old one can be reused.

And as bob says make sure the bottom plate is well sealed. Run some solder around it. Especially if you are going to use oil rather than grease.

 

Do they fit on to the vertical link - some can be very tight.

 

Roger

[Alec Pringle]

" the only thing stopping them from being a matched pair is the lack pf split pin hole in the LH pin. "

 

They certainly don't look like they came off the same production line . . . . .

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[RogerH]

Hi Alec,

indeed they do look different in the pic. Has the LH one got its protective coating of grease on it etc etc.

I think the important thing is the dimension - are they the same.

 

Why would the quality be different?

 

When buried under the suspension who will see it.

 

These things are bought in good faith.

If they both looked like the LH trunnion would they both be bad !!!

If they both looked like the RH trunnion would they both be good !!!

 

Roger

[Lebro]

I think the clue is one of the packages says "Made in the USA" the other does not.

 

Bob.

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

The split holed one is marked (and made by) The Roadster Factory.

If I had a choice I would go for a pair of them. Remember the Americans will sue to oblivion if a safety critical item fails - so allegedly we may tend to trust their quality on safety critical items.

 

The non split pin holed one I am not able to identify.

 

The TRF item probably will not need to have the grease cap soldered in - but do it before fitting to save on the heartache when you pump the grease in and the cap pops out.

 

Hamish - Are you using new V posts? Have you tried to screw either on yet? My NOS Stanpart trunnions screw perfectly onto a NOS V posts, but are a touch sloppy on used V posts.

C&B remade trunnions used to have the threads cut a few thou smaller to take up wear on old V posts, but that all went out the window when new V posts came on the market in the late 1980's.

 

'Cheap' repro trunnions also had/have the distinction of being a loose fit for the first few threads then binding when being fitted to a new V post. Lapping them onto a post was your only option for a perfect fit. This binding I concluded to be caused by the thread not being cleared AFTER the steel pin had been pressed in.

 

I have a tap for the trunnion if any one wants to pop by and use it - at their own risk!

 

Cheers

Peter W

[Hamish]

Hi

Rimmers say

...The latest batch of trunnions are supplied less the cross drilled holes for the split pins and it is now suggested that these are fitted using nyloc nuts....

 

I have asked if they have another TRF on the shelf so I can have a matched pair and explained the extreme use of motor sport.

 

We ll see what they say.

 

Peter the Vertical links Im useing were new this season the Moss neg camber ones.

 

Fingers crossed it can be sorted so I have a matching pair.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Hamish

[RogerH]

Hamish,

the interference lock washer that squishes onto the spline surely negates the use of the split pin.

The nylok will not come off on its own and the locked washer is going nowhere.

 

Rpger