What liquids not to use

[barkerwilliams]

There are many threads on the forums of the correct oil and antifreeze to use -no problems.

 

However there seems to be no warnings of what not to use.

 

You are out in the car, you loose oil, coolant, brake fluid etc and get to a nearby garage/shop who obviously won't have a classic oil. I accept that an engine with any oil in it will be infinitely better than an engine with no oil, but are there oils that should not be mixed?

 

I believe engine oil will be OK in a gearbox - is that true?

 

Can pink antifreeze be used even for a get-you-home journey (as plain water is corrosive)? I know that waterless has real issues with water.

 

Can dot 4 and dot 5 be mixed even for the trip home and flushing or are there reactions between the liquids?

 

 

Alan

 

 

[RogerH]

Hi Alan,

get you home mileage !! Lets say that is less than 500miles.

 

Most oils can be used in the GB/OD 20/50 engine oil is often used as normal.

Synthetic my find a few leaks but that is not the issue.

Even a GL5 will work as the erosion process is very slow (if at all these days) Probably best not to use a 90/140 EP diff oil.

 

Modern oil in the engine. Modern oil may be very low (0ppm) in ZDDP. This will have a slow affect on the cam followers and cam lobes.

Drive easy and change when you get home. Use a good oil. Shell Helix is good buit not really for our cars.

 

The diff needs oil for two reasons - lubrication and heat transfer. In desperation any thick oil will be better than none.

Whatever oil is in there will help keep it cool. Drive very easy and coast where possible.

 

The orange (OAT) antifreeze will work and again the process is slowish. Whatever gaskets it will attack tend to be on the outer side of the engine.

The Fo8 gaskets should be safe.

 

Dot 4 and 5 can be mixed but you lose the benefit of the water properties of both fluids. It will work and do no damage.

There have been no conclusive tests on mixing these fluids and the affect on seal swelling.

 

Windscreen washer bottle - distilled water is best as it has no calcium to build up. Tap water will work.

Do not use washing up liquids as they tend to bung up the pipework

Preferably clean the screen when you are stopped to help cleaning on the move.

 

Gin bottles - when they become empty refill only with Gin, Gordon's is nice bot there are some new fancy craft Gins out there now.

 

Roger

[barkerwilliams]

Thank you Roger. Just about to set off on a 1500 mile trip and didn't want to take a trailer full of spares. On the basis that nothing will do it much harm there is more space in the boot.

 

Alan

[Don H.]

No reason that water can't be added to waterless coolant, as far as I know. It's pretty much the same stuff as regular coolant (well, maybe a different glycol blend, but not much different). One would simply lose the "waterless" part.

 

Plain water is a fine heat transfer fluid. For getting one home, it would be a fine choice. I'd replace at least part of it to get the corrosion inhibitors in the antifreeze mix before too long, but even that wouldn't be "urgent".

 

One of the biggest roles of oil is to remove heat. I'd add *any* oil before I ran the car any distance in an otherwise way low condition.

[tim hunt]

No, no Roger. DOT3, DOT4 and DOT5.1 are all GLYCOL based hydraulic fluids of increasing boiling points and are perfectly miscible with each other in all proportions. DOT 5 is a SILICONE based fluid, which must not under any circumstances be mixed with a glycol type. I reckon it would be much more logical and have led to less confusion if the Silicone type had been designated DOT5.1.

 

Tim

[barkerwilliams]

Tim,

 

but what happens if you do mix dot 4 & dot 5? Is there a chemical reaction? Some people change from dot 4 to dot 5 and there must be residual dot 4 in the system, even in very small amounts.

 

I appreciate it would not be good to mix 4 & 5, no one would want to, but in a breakdown situation would it cause any issues if necessary to complete a journey?

 

Some owners must have topped up with wrong fluids by accident did anything happen?

 

I read that if a fluid is less that 70% silicone then it is dot 5.1, if it is above 70% it is dot 5 so the same chemicals in both fluids, just different proportions; and you can mix dot 4 and 5.1 .

 

I repeat I am not advocating mixing, just trying to ascertain if an option in a breakdown situation.

 

 

Alan

Edited August 26, 2017 by barkerwilliams

[RobH]

If you are worried about brake fluid why not just carry a tin of the correct stuff in the boot, Alan, then you don't have to compromise.

 

I can see the sense in using alternative engine oils or filling with plain water if its a coolant leak, but perhaps you should draw the line at get-you-home remedies where safety-critical things like brakes are concerned ? Its difficult to envisage a situation where you would need to top up the brake fluid during a trip unless there has been some major failing in the system. Surely that would require a proper repair before proceeding in which case the right fluid would be obtained along with the spare parts ?

[barkerwilliams]

Rob,

 

You have missed my point. There is lots of comment not to mix dot 4 and dot 5. Ok I understand that. But what happens if you do? I can't find any definitive comment on what happens if they are mixed just the mantra that you shouldn't without any factual basis.

 

 

Alan

[RogerH]

Hi Tim,

SBF is very inert and posses no danger to the seals. Both types of fluid SBF and EG use the same rubber seals.

Mixing one with the other will work for the short time (this was the criteria)

 

Long term affects have not been investigated. All the hype has been assumption.

 

Boiling point due to water retention is a major issue - DOT3/4/5 will degrade the SBF (DOT5) BUT it will not stop it working.

 

Putting a mineral oil or ester based oil in with SBF or EG will kill the seals very quickly.

 

In this case mixing DOT3/4/5 with DOT5 will get you home with no problem. After that who knows.

 

Roger

[Dave Larnder]

Alan

 

For coolant replacement to get you home then get some distilled water from the local supermarket, the type you use in steam irons. Much better than tap water. As for oil I always carry a litre of my GTX with ZDDP added in either an old oil bottle I bought the oil in or a thermos flask, as I usually buy my oil in 5 litre cans, the thermos is the preferred container. I do this when we go to Morges which is about 1000 miles there and general running about, so I need a top up before the run home

If he breakdown is more problematic, then use the get you home portion of your insurance, rather than risk damage.

 

Dave.

[PaulAA]

In this case mixing DOT3/4/5 with DOT5 will get you home with no problem. After that who knows.

 

Roger

 

Roger, Alan

 

Mixing DOT 4 and 5 may well get you home, but the consequences are grotesque. My car's PO replaced the brake fluid with DOT 5 silicone, a fact explained to the (different) withered man in a white coat who replaced my failed brake master cylinder a while ago. About two weeks after I collected the car, I discovered puddles of fluid under the rear wheels and realised that the almost empty fluid container he had had left in the boot was DOT 5.1 - mineral fluid.

 

The mix had corrupted the rear drum piston seals, contaminated the new shoes and coated the drums in a silicone/mineral fluid mix, which took several days of soap scrubbing to clean up. It also scuppered the new master cylinder. Fortunately, it hadn't reached the front brake calipers, but the pipes had to be steam-flushed and compressed air dried and, because this was only certain of removing the mineral fluid, I was committed to replenishing with silicone.

 

Paul

[RogerH]

Hi Paul,

mineral oil would certainly do that damage and that may be what was in the DOT 5.1 container.

 

However DOT5.1 is NOT mineral oil. It is a slightly upgraded version of DOT4 designed for ABS systems and will not do the damage you state.

 

There may be some long term swelling of the rubber seals but this has not be documented.

 

Roger

[PaulAA]

mineral oil would certainly do that damage and that may be what was in the DOT 5.1 container.

 

 

Hi Roger

 

Good point well made - too easy to take simple things at face value. I assumed that if he was stupid enough to mix two fluid types, he would also be stupid enough to leave the incriminating evidence in the car, but there is no guarantee that the fluid with which he topped the system up came from the DOT 5.1 container.

 

Live & learn... to be suspicious.

 

Paul

[RogerH]

Hi Paul,

2+2 doesn;t always add up to 4

 

Roger