j-eichert Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Hello there. I'm in the process of finishing my frame, ....TS27952's frame actually. Now I've got some old rear springs - probably original as the body was never off the frame. The front bolts where they are mounted look very good, but they are seized to their tube in the frame. So should I remove them by force, drill them out if necessary, just to be able to mount new ones, that may stay removable for some time? I see a danger of harming the surrounding tube when drilling the bolt out - an this beeing critical due to the possible load on that bolt. Or should I keep to that bolt, which really looks very good - no corrosion to be seeen, threads are Ok. The only risk I see is, that i may have to remove a rear spring one day - and then I have to remove the bolt or lift the body hull. The state of the rear springs is unknown to me, any ideas how to check them? It could be a solution to use new springs, thus getting enough lifetime on them (and saving the effort to restore them). Anybody searching a good pair of used rear springs? So gentleman, please some advice: - Drill the bolts out, keep the old spring and restore it. - keep the bolts, use new spring. - Drill the bolts out, use new spring - better buy a new car ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
david ferry Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Johannes, if the body is off the chassis at the moment, I would be inclined to remove the bolt now as once the body is back on, it will be much more difficult to remove. Good luck David Quote Link to post Share on other sites
j-eichert Posted July 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 David, it would be the best time to remove the bolt now. But is it necessary to do so? The bolts are still very good. Do I really need removable bolts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
david ferry Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 If it were my car, I would prefer to put it back together in the knowledge that I have a reasonable chance of changing the spring, if I need to, without taking the car apart to do so. All I am suggesting is a bit of insurance now for the future. This is what I have done with my 3, rather than ignore and leave for the future when it will almost certainly be a more difficult job with the body on the car. Regards David Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mychael Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 I agree with David. It can be a nightmare removing those bolts with the body in place. Even if the springs seem to good as in not sagged, unless you know them to be reasonably new you just cannot predict when one might break. Do the bolts, lubricate them extremly well with a waterproof anti-sieze compound. It's an investment for the future. Mychael Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 When I restored my TR3A from 1987 to 1990, I did a full body-oof rerstoration but could not get those bolts out. I tried heat, oil, penetrants, everything ! So I left them in. Then in 2000, when I was 7 miles from home after a 7225 mile trip to Portland Oregon, I broke the rear right spring. I limped home the last 7 miles and bought new rear springs. I removed the seats, the carpets and loosened about 8 to 10 bolts holding the body to the chassis. Then I used a rolling jack and lifted the rear of the body up about 6 inches off the frame and replaced the springs. It was not very difficult. On the TR3A that I'm doing now, I used penetrating oil onthe bolts, let it sit for a month with added penetrant about every 2 or 3 days and they came out with a 5 pound hammer. Don Elliott, Original Owner, 1958 TR3A, Montreal, Canada http://www.zen21606.zen.co.uk/Forum%20Gallery/don3a2_big.jpg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
j-eichert Posted July 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Thanks Don, Mychael, David. So nobody votes for new rear springs? Taking Don's expirience: The risk seems to be a rear spring failure. Having a car with unknown history, but many bumps on the underside of the frame, I would assume a hard life. The rear springs are guessed to be original - So what about exchanging them for new ones, give the car a fair chance to survive (no cross country rallying :cool: ) and be without problems for the next 100k miles. After that I may be 85, so that would be long enough for me Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mychael Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 I think new springs would be a sound investment. You can have the originals re-set but it does not always last, plus gives no guarantee they will not break. Mychael Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest GDalzell Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Hi Johannes, Your car is an ex US onefrom a dry state like mine. The bolts should come out easily with some gentle heating from a big torch - not a small blowlamp. Put a second nut over the end to protect the treads and gently tap them with a big hammer. I did buy the stainless steel replacements but I'm not sure if that was a better idea. They're not as strong as the high tensile steel ones. If your threads are good, I would be tempted to reuse them but to liberally smear them with copaslip before reassembly. Cheers, Graham Quote Link to post Share on other sites
j-eichert Posted July 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Just decided to try to get the bolts out. I re-cut their rear threads yesterday, so I wanted to try to pull them out first. Using the big hammer to drive bolts out may end in rivetting them into their tubes if they are seized at the opposite end. I made some bad experience with the bolts holding the front bumper brackets - no chance to get them out. But they are mild steel for sure. So thats why I was so afraid of touching them. So call me a lucky guy today :laugh: I just took a 3/16 x 1 1/2 screw, some washers and a 7/8 nut: Put the nut (as a kind of large tube with small hole on top) over the end of the bolt washers on top, turned the screw into the rear hole of the bolt and...guess what: that bolt just started to move out of his tube. Then some slight tapping with a hammer..pling. The other one gave s small hint of resistance, mainly because the nut couldn't be used - the welding of the tube was a bit ??? . But i used a thick plate (coming from the rear spring) with a hole in the center. It wouldn't move right from the start, so I heated it up with a soldering torch. Then it moved in a similar way.....plong..two bolts on the floor. Now the really unsuspected thing was: There was a kind of black smear on the bolts. I guess sometime they had been removed and smeared -or could this be original? Really surprising, some good rust prevention made by the company? I guess the torch just made this kind of greasy stuff liquid. OK, cleaned the bolts - they look nearly perfect, cleaned the threads -> ready to be used again. I will probably clean the tube as well from the old stuff inside and use some new copper paste. And now I can reuse the old spring cause it can easily be replaced later So thanks to all of you for your motivation and ideas: Graham, you were perfectly right or was it just luck? Don, it even went easier than with your car! Mychael, David: You just encouraged me to give it a try. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jean Posted July 29, 2005 Report Share Posted July 29, 2005 Johannes, you are more lucky than I was. When I got the car from the States the chassis had been restored and the bolts heads are welded to the frame I left them as the springs were new, but I wanted to add some large washers to prevent sidewards spring torsion. Jean Quote Link to post Share on other sites
j-eichert Posted July 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2005 Jean, are you reallx sure that they were welded to the frame? There is a tube of 7/8" outer diameter (22,5mm) welded into the frame, protruding approx. 1/2" (15mm) on the outside of the frame. Its protruding approx. 3/8" (10mm) on iner side of the frame. This tube carries the bolt as a tight fit, it has 5/8" (15,5mm) outer diameter. My first view on the frame was the same, it looks like a welded-in bolt. But look at it from the inner side: Here the bolt has a head (3/16"/ 5mm high) the same diameter than the tube. The only hints you can see are: - a tiny gap were the head of the bolt meets the end of the tube (equal diameters !), it may be covered with dirt or paint/ underseal - The head of the bolt is not round. To prevent it from turning they cut a 1/8"/ 3mm slice of the head. And here the tube has the counterpart: So you can see a thin gap and the side of the end of the bolt....possibly covered. Any welding on the frame is probably related tom the tube, not to the bolt. One of my bolts has a lot of welded material around it as well, but the head itself wasn't welded. To be honest: looking at the welding of the frame, the factory weldings were of different quality than today... a lot of metal droplets around some of the weldings points. So maybe there is hope for you left ? Or did they just want to make sure, that the bolt doesn't come out by itself...because the ruined the quidung tube when extracting the original one? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jean Posted July 29, 2005 Report Share Posted July 29, 2005 Johannes, I'm more or less sure. We used an extractor tool designed to retract the bolt. If I remember well the bolt has an interior thread to accept the tool. After the tool's pin is locked inside the bold you can retract the pin. The tool did not manage to get any movement in the pin, so we stopped the exercise before the tool was distroyed Jean Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 You were lucky. Once I had a new standard Triumph chassis and the front bolts would not move at all. I agree with Don. All this fuss about the bolts is unecessary when you can easily lift the body by removing the body mounting bolts. Easy in my case since they were stainless steel as a part of my policy to use a stainless bolt every time if possible. Good luck Richard. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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