T Rusty Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 I drove my tr3a about 200 trouble free miles today. Turned off motor many times and restarted with no problems. I parked to make a phone call, turned off motor and when trying to restart the battery was dead. I have a new alternator, 1-2-3 distributor, electric fan, new battery, overdrive, electric fuel pump, signal lights, etc. all in good working order. The ignition light has always stayed on, too complicated for me to figure out why. The ammeter has always bounced around as has the gas gauge. Most driving was 60 to 65 mph. After a jump start drove to my garage. Battery test showed 11.54 volts. Any ideas on where to start trouble shooting? Thanks! Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Harvey Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Fried alternator. A reconditioned original alternator will last longer than a nice looking new one. Ask me how I know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 200 miles with the ignition warning lamp on? Eek! I'm with Paul, faulty alternator or the field supply from the warning light is earthing somewhere it shouldn't. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Harvey Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Paul Definitely check that the alternator is charging. Unlike a generator, the car will not run at all once the battery is completely dead. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Hi Paul, have you got an 'extra' earthing cable - battery -ve to engine. The usual route is battery -ve to body, then body to engine. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
T Rusty Posted June 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 Thanks everyone. Tested the alternator output with my multimeter. It is now putting out less than 12volts. When new, bought in March, it put out just over 13. I spoke to the supplier and have the impression they have had problems with these alternators in the past. But even if I get a new one free, I still have to do the labor. As for the ignition light, behind my instrument panel is a horrible mess of my own making. But everything works except that light and I dread the thought of opening up that can of worms again unless it is absolutely necessary. Have a good ground strap from starter to chassis but don't remember if I put one from motor to chassis also. Will look into that too. Also during that trouble free trip the tachometer gave up the ghost too. Again, thanks to all. Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 You really need to sort out that charge warning lamp. It supplies the field excitation for the alternator and if it's earthing somewhere your new alternator won't last long. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
T Rusty Posted June 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Pete, will bite the bullet and sort out warning light too. Thanks Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rodbr Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 A few questions: Did you complete wiring behind the dashboard sub panel? Are using original type Bakalight bulb holders? or even repros? Was ot a new battery when you first started the "200 trouble free miles"? If yes to both I suspect you have made a mistake wiring the ignition light and wired it to earth as well. It isn't like a normal light bulb and you need to look at how it is wired. The first sign of issue is "ignition light has always stayed on" and "ammeter bouncing" Finally Ithink that you have run on the battery from day one and after each journey the battery came back up till it finally cried enough! You really need to sort this out as there is potential for fire and a seriously melted loom and all that goes with it! If it is "too complicated for me to figure out why" you need to get someone to assist. Don't ask why I know but at least I did not have an alternator! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
T Rusty Posted June 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Am digesting your comments, and will try to solve things as you suggested. I do think I might have wired the light to earth. More later. Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) I bet you have the warning lamp earthed Paul and if so it's the likely cause of your problems and would result in the lamp being on all the time. It should have +12V on one side, from the ignition switch. The other side of the bulb is connected to the field terminal on the alternator (the small one). The idea is that if the alternator is not charging there is a voltage developed across the bulb which lights. As the alternator begins to produce current the field terminal voltage increases to +12V which means that the warning lamp has 12V on both sides and it goes out. Edited June 20, 2014 by peejay4A Quote Link to post Share on other sites
T Rusty Posted June 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Spent yesterday working on car. the ignition warning light is the correct new bakelite holder from Moss. What confused me was that the holder has a earth connector on the side so yes. I put a wire to earth. when I removed the earth, the bulb no longer lights. The holder is wired to ignition switch on one side and to small (yellow) wire coming from alternator. With motor running that yellow wire put out 12.6 volts immediately and as I revved motor it quickly rose to over 14.5. So now there is no ignition warning light at all. The bulb is 12volt, 3w, if that matters. No wires got warm. Tested voltage from.alternator a few times and was always over 14 volts. Is that too high? I don't have a battery to engine earth but will arrange one. I don't know much about electricity (understatement) but I was pleased to see that no matter where I earthed the multimeter on the car there was almost no difference in voltage. Am I correct in assuming that's good? incidentally, adjusted valves after re-torqueing head. There is still a clicking noise but I can`t be sure it's coming from rocker area. Is there such a thing as a stethoscope for mechanics? Motor runs great otherwise. Also, I have been told several times that there is no such thing as a rebuilding kit for the alternator sold by Moss. Is that true? Thanks everyone for help. Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Paul. When you switch on to start the car the warning lamp should come on. It should go out when the engine starts. 14V or so at the battery is fine when the battery is charging just after starting. Check it after you've run her for a while and it should settle down to 13V or so. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Hi Paul, your ignition light is now working correctly. When running the battery (one side of bulb) balances the Alternator (other side of bulb) so it doesn't glow. It should not be earthed - as you have found out. Using the body/chassis as the earth measuring point is good - that shows it is attached to the battery. With the rocker cover on it is possible to hear the tappets by putting a screw driver blade on the cover and the handle end against your ear. This is quite directional.gght When doing this please do ensure you have NO loose clothing. If a tie etc got caught in the fan belt it could easily choke you. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Hi Paul, regarding the Alt rebuild kit. Most car shops will have what you need - brushes, diode pack etc. Possibly even Halfords. Ebay is a good source for these things. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
T Rusty Posted June 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Hi Roger, The problem now is the warning light does not come on at all. Am I correct in assuming with ignition switch turned on, motor not started, there should be 12v on ignition side only? Does the wire to alternator then act as earth to light bulb until alternator produces voltage? However it should work, the bulb doesn't light now at all. So I must have done something wrong. Again. Thanks for your thoughts on this. Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
T Rusty Posted June 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Sun shining so took car for short (shorter than planned) ride. After about two miles, white stinky smoke from under dash. The connector from ignition switch to warning light burnt through. When we started car before ride ignition warning light did not come on. Ammeter during short ride showed plus the whole time. Restarted car and drove back to garage as if nothing happened. Battery tested at 12.76 volts after ride. Alternator charging at 12.5. I can't figure out why that light doesn't work, it's wired correctly and is( now) not grounded. Any ideas? Thanks , Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Hi Paul, you are correct about the alternator acting as the return earth when not rotating. Have you actually checked the bulb to see if it is working. Due to the burning, you do have problem - I don;t think a blown bulb will do this. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
T Rusty Posted June 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 Hello Roger, Yes bulb is okay. Overnight I was thinking... I did put in an anti-feedback diode in the yellow wire because motor continued to run after turning off key. The diode solved that problem but could that be why the ignition warning light doesn'ts function? Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 Hi Paul, the yellow wire is the feed from the dynamo to the Ig lamp - depending on its direction it may well stop the lamp from coming on. Why did you fit it? If the enigne continued to run after turning off the ig switch then the coil will be getting feed from somewhere else - find this. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 I urge you to find a competant auto-electrician before you have a major fire. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve R Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 Paul I'm with Alan and Roger on this, you claim to know little about electrics, yet adding electronic components to the wiring loom, you may have wires fused together within the loom now which could be difficult to trace. i would also consider disconnecting the battery while it's at home in the garage, just in case! Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 I couldn't agree more with the comments above. Whereabouts are you located? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Harvey Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 While you are it it you could add a kill switch to the system Revington do a kit (a bit expensive) which allows you to have the red cut off key under the dashboard above your knees This incorporates a safety device for the alternator circuit It is also a very effective anti-theft deterrent I clip the red key to my ignition key every time I leave the car so I don't lose it Simply remove this key every time you are working on the electrics to avoid disaster Quote Link to post Share on other sites
T Rusty Posted June 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 Greetings again, I have melted a yard or two wire over the years but have learned to read a wiring diagram. I put in the new wiring loom without problems. In the process I wired in a Kenlow fan, electric fuel pump, signal lights, headlights that had to be re-wired for the German technical inspection (I'm an American living in Germany...and when I was a late teenager in the states and my friends were nuts about the new 328 ci Chevy and Elvis Presley, I was nuts about all British two-seat sports cars and jazz and Frank Sinatra and my pride and joy was a 1953 MG TD and it brings a tear to my eye when I remember the fun I had with it and even when the starter fell out of the bottom and it was hanging by a cable and I had to remove it and for the next few weeks I either cranked it by hand or when I was at my second job I parked it on a slope and coasted down a bit, popped the clutch, and it started instantly and I did that until I could afford those long skinny bolts that held the starter in...or was there only one bolt? whatever...) and on the original tr3a subject, I installed and wired in electric seat heating. Top down, seats turned on, the car is an absolute joy to drive...I added fuses where I thought it necessary and, I think, safely and correctly and covered it all with shrink tubing. The problems began with the installation of the alternator which complicated matters more because although it was new it was defective. After replacing it, when the ignition was turned off, the motor continued to run. I drew many wiring diagrams trying to dtermine where the "juice" was coming from but in the end just wired in a toggle switch so I could continue work on the car. On the internet (unfortunately not the forum) it seemed this was a common problem and that's where I learned that the solution was an anti-feedback diode or a rectifier diode I was told it was called. I bought the diode specified for less than two pounds and wired it in according to instructiins on the internet. Since then, everything worked, without smoke or sparks, except the ignition warnng light. That remained on whenever the key was on. After reading more on the forum I re-checked the wiring and found that I had in fact ran an earth wire from the warning lamp so I removed it.Then it did not light at all. The sun was shining, we decided to trouble shoot the lamp later and went for the short ride. That's when the wire between ignition and lamp burned through. It's raining which is giving me time to go back to the wiring diagram. It must be the diode that caused the problem? Thanks for all info and comments and yes, I now disconnect battery when I leave my garage! Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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