May have done something very stupid!

[randall977]

Is it possible to put the thrust bearing on back-to-front (early type clutch)?

[randall977]

Well I can tell you that it's not possible! However it is possible to put the clutch plate the wrong way round and spend hours trying to get the gearbox to align with the spline!

[Ade-TR4]

after 3...

 

"you put the gearbox in, the gearbox out, in out in out ..."

 

Don't worry, I put a 4a release bearing on my 4 and wondered why there was no clutch pedal travel! Cue swearing and gearbox back out...

 

 

Ade

[RogerH]

........it's been done before and it will be done again.

 

Still, practice makes perfect.

 

Roger

[randall977]

The clutch plate being back to front added to the problem but was not the problem. I have a huge amount of play in the slave cylinder rod and all I can think is that somebody has altered the three prongs which the thrust bearing pushes! I wish I had bought the whole clutch kit but I thought 'no it looks fine....'

 

Anybody else had this problem.

 

Big annoying setback!

[Ade-TR4]

Have you mounted the slave cylinder on the correct side of the bracket? Can't remeber if it is possible to do it incorrectly, but may be worth a check.

Also, is the pushrod adjustable? ie does it have a thread on it that can be wound out/ in. It's a popular mod.

Is your slave cylinder OK?

I'll keep thinking...

Cheers

Adey

PS: while you've got the box out, have you replaced the cross-shaft pin that holds/ locates the "Y" extension that moves the thrust bearing? There is a hardened-pin which should be fitted to reduce the chance of it shearing.

[randall977]

Hi Ade, thanks for the reply. I replaced the cross shaft pin and the slave cylinder in set up exactly as the book. There is not a lot of movement when you depress the clutch but this is a separate problem - poor quality slave maybe??? Anyhow I read in the WSM that the three prongs can be adjusted to make up for wear in the clutch plate. Now I think about it I realise that these pronges where quite recessed and did not protrude as they should. This would account for the play and the failure to operate. I could adjust the clutch cover myself but the equipment shown in the book looks very specialist!

 

I'm very close to ordering a new clutch cover from Moss...and I'm not looking forwards to taking the gearbox out again!

[johnny250]

I had limited stroke from the clutch slave cylinder too..... spotted this modification at TRGB a couple of years ago (possibly caused by incompatible cylinder diameters etc) and that's what I'm running now....works great....my fork had been welded to the shaft by previous owner....was going to replace all....but then realised it wasn't going to break/slip ever again so left it!

Edited July 21, 2010 by johnny250

[randall977]

Took the gearbox off again and took a photo of the clutch cover plate. When you move the clutch arm there is a massive amount of play and it's due to the three prongs being recessed too much...I believe??? Can anybody shed some light on this - is this normal, it doesn't look like it has been adjusted but surely they should protrude???

 

[TorontoTim]

Took the gearbox off again and took a photo of the clutch cover plate. When you move the clutch arm there is a massive amount of play and it's due to the three prongs being recessed too much...I believe??? Can anybody shed some light on this - is this normal, it doesn't look like it has been adjusted but surely they should protrude???

 

 

 

 

I seem to remember that there are two different release-bearing carriers - one longer than the other. Many years ago on a TR4A (if my memory still works), I changed the clutch and put everything back together only to find when I put my foot on the clutch pedal, everything "worked" but there was no "clutch-cover" resistance at all - the release bearing simply didn't make any contact.

 

This is when I found out about the two different carriers.................... Carpet, H-brace, tunnel cover, box....all back out.

 

I don't know if this is the problem you have - maybe the cover is at fault, as you say - but worth having a look at this. I think that Moss list two different ones (so you can take a look at the diagrams on their site) and I'm sure there are people on here who would be able to tell what you have from a photo.

 

 

Good luck!!

Edited July 21, 2010 by TorontoTim

[randall977]

Yes I noticed that there are two different lengths but does this just apply to the 4a? There is no reference to a longer one for the 4 in Moss or in the WSM... There is definitely a problem and it's definitely the clutch assembly but I can't work out why...

 

Thanks for the reply!

[TorontoTim]

I think the two clutches are interchangeable for all of the 4-cylinder cars (2-4A) so it's possible that you have the wrong combination of carrier and cover.

 

This might not be your problem at all, but certainly worth looking into.

[randall977]

Everything is as the WSM shows, I assume it worked before I put the new clutch plate in (the old one was identical and not that worn really). The prongs are way too far in though - someone else must have come accross this problem??? When you buy a new clutch cover do the prongs stick out or in (as mine do)?

[TR 2100]

The prongs are way too far in though - someone else must have come accross this problem???

 

Yes - I have.

 

After I replaced the clutch pressure plate and friction disc (can't

rememebr if I replaced the thrust bearing), I drove the car (a 3A)

without any clutch p[roblems for maybe 2-3,000 miles, I had to remove

the gearbox. The fingers were worn even more than yours - right through

in the middle, leaving (identical) slots in each finger.

 

Trouble is, I never did find the source of the problem. The repair

work turned into a major restoration which never got finished!

 

It seems to me that, logically, the thrust bearing isn't moving freely

and wears out the fingers, but I never had any evidence of that - there

was no sound that I would have expected had this been the case.

 

AlanR

[randall977]

Yes, there are several mysetries. The fingers are worn yet the bearing feels absolutely fine - could just be tiny amounts of wear over a long period (mine is probably original) - but 2-3000 miles isn't right! The fingers on mine positively point inwards which means the thrust bearing has to travel much further and therefore accounts for the excessive travel in the slave cylinder rod (it almost hits the floor pan).

 

The facts are this:

 

1. The clutch plate is standard

2. The thrust bearing and fork are correct and standard - work well.

3. The cover plate has not been adjusted - there is no evidence that it has been adjusted.

 

Possibilities:

 

1. The friction disc is too thick???

2. The clutch cover has been replaced with a simular but not identical one?

3. The new clutch plate is 1/4 inch thicker than the original - doesn't look like it!

 

Should I just order a new cover plate? Will it be exactly the same?

[TR 2100]

Having the car already stripped down to the pressure plate and found

a problem with the fingers, I think you would be very foolish to not

replace the pressure plate. It hasn't got much life left in it.

I would probably replace the release bearing as well, though if it's

moving freely, I would be tempted to leave it alone. I reckon you are

just as likely to have a problem with a new bearing as you would be

with the existing one. Hard to call.

 

I would check everything again, as best you can, and re-assemble,

making sure there is the required amount of free play on the clutch

slave rod.

And take note of any further replies to this thread.

 

Then keep your fingers crossed.

 

AlanR

[randall977]

Thanks for the replies Alan. I spoke to Protek Engineering (Wallingford) who said they had never had a problem with the clutch cover but they had with the cross shaft and fork. I repaired the pin on mine so I don't think that is the problem - the fork is 180 degrees from the lever - this is how is should be right?

 

There must be a reason for this problem!

 

Could I have been supplied a TR4a clutch plate? Would it make any difference?

Edited July 22, 2010 by randall977

[Ade-TR4]

Have you put a 4a bearing carrier on the 4 bearing?

They are different and I think the 4a type is shorter.

 

http://www.moss-europe.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=1995

 

Cheers

Ade

[randall977]

I haven't but somebody might of in the past...maybe to make up for a worn clutch plate? I did have a 4a bearing with my spares...but no spare carrier. How can I tell which carrier I have? - the diagram doesn't show very much...

[Ade-TR4]

4a type:

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/clutch/StickyClutch/Sticky2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/clutch/StickyClutch/StickyClutch.htm&usg=__-1Iy7W9p7b19y7BHWHR7h21CVkQ=&h=440&w=593&sz=30&hl=en&start=3&itbs=1&tbnid=m-d-zm-vpZIuFM:&tbnh=100&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtr4%2Bclutch%2Bbearing%2Bsleeve%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1

 

The 4 type looks abit mor like a top-hat (if I remember correctly... )

 

Cheers

ade

[randall977]

This is my thrust bearing and carrier. They are TR4 spec - the carrier for the TR4 is the short one btw. Does this look okay?

 

[randall977]

The clutch plate was on the correct way in the first place....

 

So this is my conclusion:

 

Everything is as it should be for a TR4 in my case. The variable is the repair I carried out to the cross shaft pin. It wasn't the tidiest and I damaged the internals of the fork and the shaft itself. When I removed the new pin today it was a little distorted. So I will order a new fork off eBay (£27) and a new shaft from Moss (£20)...I have a spare pin!

 

I hope it will then work...

[PJM]

I have a 6 and had my clutch changed by Marko's guys having done them in the past and not wanting the hassle this time round. What I do know is that having gone to all that trouble of getting at it, it is false economy not to change all the components whilst it is out. The moss parts link shows the differences between the 4 and 4A so I would be inclined to confirm you have all the right components and then change all the clutch parts, pressure plate, driven plate and release bearing and of course check out the fork and pin. The pins in the cover look well worn to me but as I say I have not worked on a 4. Is there anyone local who can give a second opinion?

[randall977]

I drove the car forwards, I drove the car back...it started raining.

 

I think the actual problem was air in the clutch hydraulics due to have the slave upside down.