Menno van Rij Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 Hello all, No new restoration update... Well, perhaps there will be one in the future. I've driven an MKII Jag with aftermarket power steering... Having driven that Jag before fitment of the p/s, I now know how it feels and drive. The difference is awesome! The company who produced p/s for the Jag has a kit for a TR3A as well... In short, very, very tempting I can tell you. (Perhaps a job for next winter). Anyway, Frank asked for a few pics 'on the road'. Here are two... (And yes, there's a Dutch wind mill on one of them). A rural road, minutes away from my house. Have a nice weekend! Menno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin in CT Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 Sweet! Thanks Menno, for another little jot of inspiration...working on mounting seat brackets this weekend. Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
angelfj Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 Hello all, No new restoration update... Well, perhaps there will be one in the future. I've driven an MKII Jag with aftermarket power steering... Having driven that Jag before fitment of the p/s, I now know how it feels and drive. The difference is awesome! The company who produced p/s for the Jag has a kit for a TR3A as well... In short, very, very tempting I can tell you. (Perhaps a job for next winter). Anyway, Frank asked for a few pics 'on the road'. Here are two... (And yes, there's a Dutch wind mill on one of them). A rural road, minutes away from my house. Have a nice weekend! Menno Menno: Ahhhhhhh. Yet another beautiful Powder Blue Dutch sidescreen TR. Great pics!!! There's an English word, is it bucolic, to describe a country scene like these. I often wondered, even though most of the Dutch windmills were intended for pumping water or grinding wheat, has anyone tried to generate electricity with these old type windmills? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Menno van Rij Posted May 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 @ Kevin: this kind of pictures kept me going for years. In fact, I had a pic of Raymond's (well known figure here) powder blue TR acting as screen saver on my computer for years! And I think he will recognise one of the pics: my car is in about the same setting as his years ago! @ Frank - I've learned something today! 'Bucolic'... I'd never heard of it. In fact, I had to look that one up in the dictionary. I'm sure you did this on purpose! Just to get my language skills on a higher level. I like that!!! It's a nice thought about the wind mills. A lot have been dismantled during the 50s and 60s. In the western part of the country, these mills were used to pump the water away, on higher ground they were used for grinding and even producing paper made out of old clothing (...) There's a lot of friction inside the mills when they turn, sometimes even starting a fire inside the mill. Therefore, the millar had to control the speed of the mill all the time. You have to come over to Holland again and we'll try to visit a working mill near my house (used for grinding). Menno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sidescreen Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 Hello Menno, Frank and all others ! Can't stay behind after all this "gossip". Here's a picture of a modern type of windmill in a Dutch scenery which do generate electricty ! Regards , Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Menno van Rij Posted May 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 Hello Raymond! How's life? Are you getting along with your new project? Nice pic of the new Dutch windmills, although I think that I've seen more of these the last time I visited Denmark. I dug up your picture that has been my computer's screen saver a few years ago: You can see that I tried to replicate the picture of my car earlier today. Guess what's on my computer at work first thing next week! Menno (Are you coming to Almen next month?) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew Smith Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 (edited) Hi Menno Great photos, car looks excellent. Had a great trip 'up north' this weekend to Stamford and Rutland Water for a bit of a do and took some very nice 'time capsule' photos at a garage in Somersham (Nr Huntingdon) so hence new signature photos - thanks again Duncan & Nina and Trevor & Helen et al! Cheers Andrew Edited May 26, 2009 by Andrew Smith Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Hi Menno, That power steering sounds like an interesting project, and might slow down the rate of conversion of cars to rack and pinion, although I find my standard steering set up in the 3A to be quite OK. The key I've found is a properly greased suspension in good condition, with full tread/correctly inflated tyres, and plenty of lube in the steering box. I had a special factory order 3.4 litre MOD MK11 in Pearl Grey with bright red connolly hides, and it had optional wider 6" CWW (with Coombs spats), so you can imagine the steering without power assistance The first owner chose a 3.4 because it was a sweeter motor than the 3.8 for city work. I regretted parting with it recently after many years, but someone kept throwing money, and it wasn't getting much use. And Andrew, that windscreen isn't quite the DNA of TRK......perhaps photoshop those pics and drop the aeroscreens in. Best regards, Viv. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew Smith Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 .......And Andrew, that windscreen isn't quite the DNA of TRK......perhaps photoshop those pics and drop the aeroscreens in. Best regards, Viv. Hi Viv, Agreed, but I had Mrs S with me on the trip this weekend, and whilst she is happy to trundle around the quiet lanes of West Surrey with aeroscreens fitted she stopped short of the 300 mile round trip to 'Middle Earth'! Cheers Andrew Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Menno van Rij Posted May 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Hi Viv, I contacted the p/s guys last Saturday, asking them for more info on their product(s). They returned an email with additional info: a p/s set for my TR3A would set me back 1750 euros. It's their first 3A and therefore, it's a 'pre production offer'. They mounted a p/s system on TR4s and TR6s, but no 3A until now. They told me that the control head would still be usable. They encountered some problems with that on Austin Healeys etc and they've adapted the system: the control head stays in place, but will TURN together with turning the steering wheel. I have to think about that: I've driven with a TR3 on which the c/h was turning together with the steering wheel. I hated that! On the other hand, would I have installed a r/p steering, the control head would have become obsolete, I think (correct me if I'm wrong!). Anyway, you can have a look at: EZ Power Steering (English site) Will be continued! Menno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Thanks Menno. I'm interested on behalf of many of our senior members getting on towards, and over their '70's, who are very keen to retain and keep driving their beloved TR's, but are finding the steering tiresome. Organised Wednesday runs are popular for a lot of retired folk, and some have to wrestle through heavy late afternoon traffic to get home. It will be a far different kettle of fish making a power steering kit for a sidescreen TR than a rack and pinion model. I guess it's preferable if they can overcome the challenges in keeping the original control head, but for these chaps it's really about driving their cars, rather than being too worried about where the indicator and horn controls are located. Yes the control head becomes obsolete on a R & P conversion, as there's no inner column for the stator tube. Regards, Viv. PS Andrew, understand only too well when the TR leaves town.....peace in the camp (or cramp) is essential. !!!. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sidescreen Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Hello Raymond! How's life? Are you getting along with your new project? Nice pic of the new Dutch windmills, although I think that I've seen more of these the last time I visited Denmark. I dug up your picture that has been my computer's screen saver a few years ago: You can see that I tried to replicate the picture of my car earlier today. Guess what's on my computer at work first thing next week! Menno (Are you coming to Almen next month?) Hi Menno & All others, I'm on holiday at this very moment and will reply later on...... Will be at Almen, Menno ! Regards, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Man Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Thanks Menno. I'm interested on behalf of many of our senior members getting on towards, and over their '70's, who are very keen to retain and keep driving their beloved TR's, but are finding the steering tiresome. Organised Wednesday runs are popular for a lot of retired folk, and some have to wrestle through heavy late afternoon traffic to get home. It will be a far different kettle of fish making a power steering kit for a sidescreen TR than a rack and pinion model. I guess it's preferable if they can overcome the challenges in keeping the original control head, but for these chaps it's really about driving their cars, rather than being too worried about where the indicator and horn controls are located. Yes the control head becomes obsolete on a R & P conversion, as there's no inner column for the stator tube. Regards, Viv. Hello Menno and Viv, Really nice photos Menno, the powder blue is stunning. A friend and I are restoring a 1958 TR3A and are about a year behind you, Menno (maybe more at the rate we're going!). The car is originally from California and we have converted it to right hand drive so adherence to strict originality is not an ambition with this particular car. I take the approach that any modern comforts that we can avail of we will fit, e.g. servo for the brakes, new heater, radio with MP3 etc, etc. We have fitted rack and pinion steering, lower suspension, negative camber, stiffened springs, the engine has been rebuilt by Racestorations and makes 150 bhp, gearbox with overdrive and up-rated drive shaft, differential and half shafts. For the past few nights we have been fitting power steering to the upper steering column. We are using an Opel Corsa B electric power steering unit. I bought this from www.summerhillspares.ie for €105 with €15 delivery charge. It includes the original steering ECU. It will be necessary to buy an electronic adaptor that can be purchased on the web for €45. You would think that this Corsa EPS unit has been specially designed to fit a sidescreen TR. It fits like a glove, absolutely perfectly, between the dashboard and the front bulkhead and does not get in the way of anything. The steering wheel fits beautifully in just the right position. The column has an electric motor sticking out the side of it which is positioned just behind the pedal box. It has a totally universal extension to fit to the lower column, so precision alignment is unnecessary. We have supported the steering end of the unit to brackets welded to the front horizontal part of the crash bar running underneath the scuttle. If you don't have one of these crash bars it is easy to fit the Corsa column to the original TR fitting steering wheel support fitting. Currently we are working on the dashboard end and we have bolted one of the Corsa column brakets to the pedal box. Next week (Friday) we will finish the basic fitting and I will post some photos for you. We were amazed at how well it fitted and how easy it was to do so. It is as solid as a rock. Menno your photos inspire the rest of us 'restorers'. We still haven't made a final decision on the colour for our car. Regards, Martin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Menno van Rij Posted May 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Martin! I think you've opened a whole new dimension. I am (and I think a lot of other people) really interested to see the pics and read all the technical details! Menno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Yes Martin, that looks like a brilliant piece of innovation. Do you know if the EPS uses much current, as you didn't say if you are/have fitted an alternator ?. Is the rate of power assistance adjustable....maybe via ECU or a potentiometer/rheostat (if a higher current is passing through). I wonder if you have driven the car converted to R & P, as they are usually fairly light to steer, and it might not need very much power assistance. Regards. Viv Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Man Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Yes Martin, that looks like a brilliant piece of innovation. Do you know if the EPS uses much current, as you didn't say if you are/have fitted an alternator ?. Is the rate of power assistance adjustable....maybe via ECU or a potentiometer/rheostat (if a higher current is passing through). I wonder if you have driven the car converted to R & P, as they are usually fairly light to steer, and it might not need very much power assistance. Regards. Viv Dear Menno and Viv, I would say the motor EPS must use a good few amps and I would guess a good battery and modern alternator are essential. We basically are building a modern car. Yes Viv, we have an alternator fitted and I also omitted to say that the ignition is electronic. We will fit a completley modern electrical system and optimise it with 'relays' wherever they will help. If you click on the link below you can read about 'CORSA RALLY ELECTRIC POWER STEERING COLUMN CONTROLLER', we think we will probably fit this switch to the dashboard and so far as I know it controls the amount of assistance required by the driver. To answer your question about rack and pinion steering, Viv. I have never driven a sidescreen without the 'worm'. I bought a TR2 in 1964 and a TR3A in 1966. Both had very 'loose' or 'wobbly' steering. The TR4 I bought in 1970 had much 'sweeter' steering but I cannot remember the details of how light it was when parking. However we knew no different then, as powered steering was for big cars lke Mercedes and Cadillacs! The reason I thought of it for the current car was in case my wife wanted to drive it (she was my girlfriend when I had the TR3a and TR4). I doubt very much that she will drive it, but you never know. I suppose when the car was in a state of disrepair and undergoing a 'nut and bolt' refit it seems like the right time to do it. We did consider that the R&P steering would not be too heavy on its own, but never the less decided to try the EPS - just in case. It is easy to revert to the original if necessary. I suppose I am used to modern cars now and like the members you are concerned for Viv, I am looking for an easy life and don't fancy having to struggle when parking - it takes some of the enjoyment away. The Corsa universl joint/extension has a rectangular connecting piece and we will need to adjust the steering column to fit. To join the lower column that comes up from the R&P to the Corsa fitting, we are thinking of using the old upper column, adapting it by cutting it to fit and adjusting the profile of the upper end where it connects to the Corsa universal extension (i.e. make it rectangular - probably a simple enough operation). We plan to use the original bulkead column support fitting with a 'cut-down' outer tube to protect the old column as it passes throught the bulkhead. If this does not do the job we will come up with some other arrangement. I am sorry I will not be working on the car until late next week Menno but will definitely take photos from every angle and post them in this thread. I am off to Kinsale, Co Cork for Dragon racing for the long weekend (Irsih Dragon Championships) - it is very remiss of me to allow boats get in he way of TRs! Look forward to communicating wiht you again then. Regards, Martin LINK: http://cgi.ebay.ie/Corsa-rally-kit-Escort-Electric-Power-steering-Control_W0QQitemZ320362495633QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090421?IMSfp=TL090421128001r661#ebayphotohosting Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Man Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Sorry Everybody, That link I posted above does not seem to be working. Instead please 'Google': 'Corsa Rally Kit Escort Electric Power Steering Control Unit' or look it up through E-Bay. I see it is for sale in Bandon, Co Cork - I will be passing through that town tomorrow as it turns out. Maybe I can pick one up. Regards, Martin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Thanks Martin. Do you sail a Petticrow - a few have come down here 2nd hand. We'll look forward to some pics of the power steering. Stay dry. Viv. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Menno van Rij Posted May 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Do you sail a Petticrow Wow, are we going to talk about sailing!? Yes!? I really love these, what (I think) is called in English, day sailers! I'm a qualified CWO sailing instructor (Dutch equivalent of the RYA trainers) for over 20 years now. Although I have to admit that I haven't instructed people for over a year now... I had something TR-ish on my mind lately... But I have renewed my instructor's license last month; I think I'll pick up that hobby again! (picture later today) Menno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Menno - If it's sailboat photos you plan to add, may I suggest you start a new thread "On the water pictures". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Menno van Rij Posted May 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Yes, I also thought that it would be too far off topic! I can get carried away when it comes to sailing. I sailed my first dinghy long before I had my drivers license! Back on topic now: there's a Meet & Greet in Almen, in the east of The Netherlands. The Dutch TR Club Holland has an article on their website. I don't know why it isn't in English or German, therefore I don't think that it has any use posting a link. The theme for this year is about racing and rallying. I know that there will be some TR milestones attending the meet: e.g. a Works TR7V8 group 4 rally car and various other 'TR Milestones' : a 1960 TRS that attended Le Mans and Sebring that year. A 1954 TR2 (OVC 276), driven by Ken Richardson and Ray Henderson; the first works rallycar. And the Red Baron Classic Racing Team will display their current stable of racing TRs. And last but not least: the Huet HB Special. If you want additional info about this, don't hesitate to PM me for more info. (I'm not involved in the event itself, but off course I will try to answer your questions!) Have a nice weekend! Menno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Man Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Yes, I also thought that it would be too far off topic! I can get carried away when it comes to sailing. I sailed my first dinghy long before I had my drivers license! Back on topic now: there's a Meet & Greet in Almen, in the east of The Netherlands. The Dutch TR Club Holland has an article on their website. I don't know why it isn't in English or German, therefore I don't think that it has any use posting a link. The theme for this year is about racing and rallying. I know that there will be some TR milestones attending the meet: e.g. a Works TR7V8 group 4 rally car and various other 'TR Milestones' : a 1960 TRS that attended Le Mans and Sebring that year. A 1954 TR2 (OVC 276), driven by Ken Richardson and Ray Henderson; the first works rallycar. And the Red Baron Classic Racing Team will display their current stable of racing TRs. And last but not least: the Huet HB Special. If you want additional info about this, don't hesitate to PM me for more info. (I'm not involved in the event itself, but off course I will try to answer your questions!) Have a nice weekend! Menno Hello Again All, Yes, Viv, I sail a 2006 Petticrow and my previous boat a 1997 Petticrow, ‘King Rat’ was sold ‘down under’ but I cannot remember the name of the new owner. Perhaps she is being sailed in your area. We had fantastic weather in Kinsale at the Championships but it is raining again here today. Hope you have better weather for your sailing in Holland, Menno! We finished the basic fitting of the EPS unit last night and I hope I can get the pictures up now. I have included a few taken at an early stage where the unit is being supported by cable ties. We had not fitted the under scuttle roll over bar at that stage and it will give those of you who have not fitted a roll bar an idea of how easy it would be to make up a rear bracket using the original ‘anchor’ fitting. Requirements for Electric Power Steering for TR2, TR3 or TR3A 1. Opel/Vauxhall Corsa B EPS unit with EPS ECU (€115 used, delivered) 2. After-market assistance control ESG unit (€44.99 new, delivered) 3. Length of steel plating (600 x 30 x 4 mm) – rear end support – vertical and horizontal 4. Length of angle iron (245 x 20 x 2 mm) – horizontal front end support 5. Length of steel plating (180 x 20 x 2 mm) – vertical front end support 6. Nuts & Bolts 7. Welding and cutting equipment General We connected the rear of the EPS unit (i.e. the steering wheel end) to an under scuttle roll bar, however the original steering bracket would also be ideal and probably less steel plating (No 3 above) would be used in the adaptation. Conversion of a LHD car would be slightly different and would necessitate turning the EPS unit upside down otherwise the motor would not fit because the battery box would get in the way. In a LHD car the rear bracket would have to enclose the steering column however this would not present any problems. The front end would basically be fabricated the same way with slight changes. The variations would not present any major problems as this Corsa EPS unit fits very snugly between the dashboard and the bulkhead of the sidescreen TR. Description of fabrication There are four fixing points on the Corsa B EPS unit, two at the front and two at the back. Rear end support (i.e. steering wheel end) We fabricated a U-boxed shaped support bracket using No 3 above. The lower cross member of this bracket takes up a slanting position, estimating the angle of which becomes obvious during fabrication. This is because the EPS unit takes up a position where the front end is lower than the back end. The upper ends of this U-box are welded to the roll bar. We fabricated the verticals in two short pieces and bolted them together so as to be able to make adjustments if necessary. We will eventually weld these plates together. One probably would not weld these in the case of a LHD so the unit could be dropped easily when dismantling. Front end support (i.e. bulkhead end) The pedal box is ideally placed to help support the front end of the EPS unit. An angle iron (No 4 above) is bolted horizontally to the lower back edge of the pedal box (see extra bolt heads in one of the pictures) and the inner end is welded to a vertical steel plate (No 5 above) whose upper end is bolted with two bolts to the front left (inner) vertical part of the original steering bracket. With all the nuts tightened it is impossible to move the unit – it is totally rock solid and very strong. We will eventually use Nylock nuts throughout the assembly. I am not sure how many images I am allowed post in one rpely so I will keep posting them until all 13 are published. Regards, Martin Right side view back bracket Attachment to pedal box from underneath Assistance adjustment control, ESG, original EPS ECU Behind without steering wheel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Man Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 (edited) Yes, I also thought that it would be too far off topic! I can get carried away when it comes to sailing. I sailed my first dinghy long before I had my drivers license! Back on topic now: there's a Meet & Greet in Almen, in the east of The Netherlands. The Dutch TR Club Holland has an article on their website. I don't know why it isn't in English or German, therefore I don't think that it has any use posting a link. The theme for this year is about racing and rallying. I know that there will be some TR milestones attending the meet: e.g. a Works TR7V8 group 4 rally car and various other 'TR Milestones' : a 1960 TRS that attended Le Mans and Sebring that year. A 1954 TR2 (OVC 276), driven by Ken Richardson and Ray Henderson; the first works rallycar. And the Red Baron Classic Racing Team will display their current stable of racing TRs. And last but not least: the Huet HB Special. If you want additional info about this, don't hesitate to PM me for more info. (I'm not involved in the event itself, but off course I will try to answer your questions!) Have a nice weekend! Menno With beautiful Corsa steering wheel – for positioning purposes only! Brackets – left side view Showing attachment to pedal box – left side view Edited June 6, 2009 by TR Man Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Man Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 (edited) Yes, I also thought that it would be too far off topic! I can get carried away when it comes to sailing. I sailed my first dinghy long before I had my drivers license! Back on topic now: there's a Meet & Greet in Almen, in the east of The Netherlands. The Dutch TR Club Holland has an article on their website. I don't know why it isn't in English or German, therefore I don't think that it has any use posting a link. The theme for this year is about racing and rallying. I know that there will be some TR milestones attending the meet: e.g. a Works TR7V8 group 4 rally car and various other 'TR Milestones' : a 1960 TRS that attended Le Mans and Sebring that year. A 1954 TR2 (OVC 276), driven by Ken Richardson and Ray Henderson; the first works rallycar. And the Red Baron Classic Racing Team will display their current stable of racing TRs. And last but not least: the Huet HB Special. If you want additional info about this, don't hesitate to PM me for more info. (I'm not involved in the event itself, but off course I will try to answer your questions!) Have a nice weekend! Menno View of EPS motor View from behind without wheel Left side – overall view Right side view without roll bar in position, cable ties Left side view, no roll over bar, battery box in position With beautiful Corsa steering wheel – for positioning purposes only! Brackets – left side view Showing attachment to pedal box – left side view Edited June 6, 2009 by TR Man Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Man Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 (edited) Yes, I also thought that it would be too far off topic! I can get carried away when it comes to sailing. I sailed my first dinghy long before I had my drivers license! Back on topic now: there's a Meet & Greet in Almen, in the east of The Netherlands. The Dutch TR Club Holland has an article on their website. I don't know why it isn't in English or German, therefore I don't think that it has any use posting a link. The theme for this year is about racing and rallying. I know that there will be some TR milestones attending the meet: e.g. a Works TR7V8 group 4 rally car and various other 'TR Milestones' : a 1960 TRS that attended Le Mans and Sebring that year. A 1954 TR2 (OVC 276), driven by Ken Richardson and Ray Henderson; the first works rallycar. And the Red Baron Classic Racing Team will display their current stable of racing TRs. And last but not least: the Huet HB Special. If you want additional info about this, don't hesitate to PM me for more info. (I'm not involved in the event itself, but off course I will try to answer your questions!) Have a nice weekend! Menno Edited June 6, 2009 by TR Man Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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