johnny250 Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Having just talked at length to Jeff Marks at Moss London I stand corrected. the lock stops were changed at 4a production for non adjustable circular ones as you have (if you dont learn something everyday you havent been paying attention , making the adjustment of inner ball joints on the rack more critical to ensure correct front and back lock. They also know about the change of spec on the top ball joints where on full drop they bind up.Stuart. I'm keen to learn something today Stuart...... I don't remember seeing any lock stops on my car during the rebuild....are they crucial? what is the effect of not having any?.....never noticed any problems....I'd better go and check john Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) Hi Tom and Neil, Many thanks for your input, it is definitely appreciated. I did clean out the holes before fitting the tapered shaft (thankfully). I think you are correct that a washer should be under the nuts. It's funny as I was thinking this after the previous posts so will do. I don't mind 'scrutiny' at all. In fact I welcome it (I'm not perfect and do make mistakes)...so if I make a cock up, I need to be told otherwise I'll never know... Cheers fella's Tony No problem Tony now these are brakes, cool or what? same as your's? Neil Edited February 23, 2009 by ntc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tony Millward Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 No problem Tony now these are brakes, cool or what? same as your's? Neil Same type, 4 pot caliper with vented disc's but different make..mine are Wilwood. Should provide good stopping power... I noticed the washer on the nuts of the upper ball joint too..... Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I'm keen to learn something today Stuart...... I don't remember seeing any lock stops on my car during the rebuild....are they crucial? what is the effect of not having any?.....never noticed any problems....I'd better go and check john If you dont have lock stops fitted it is possible for the trunnion through bolt nut to touch the disc on full lock through the holes in the water shield thus scoring the disc. Was quite prevelant on earlier cars with the eccentric lock stops if they werent set properly to give correct front and rear lock. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
smizgals Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 If you dont have lock stops fitted it is possible for the trunnion through bolt nut to touch the disc on full lock through the holes in the water shield thus scoring the disc. Was quite prevelant on earlier cars with the eccentric lock stops if they werent set properly to give correct front and rear lock.Stuart. Stuart, I can confirm the above as I did not have any lock stops fitted when I bought my 5 in the early 80's. And had seen other cars with the same problem in repair shops. Sourced some eccentric ones from Moss in the 90's. When the RHS one scheared off in 2003 Moss could only supply the centric ones. However I still had a minor scoring which I described in a thread last December: "... it is probably causes by the tip of the edge of the castelleted nut on the trunnion .... After a long time and a lot of headscratching that is what I found on mine, albeit on the RHS. My LHS nut presented a flat face to the disc and thus no scratch on that disc. Jacked up there seems to be enough tolerance, however on full lock and under load it is rather different. A little filing of the tip cured the problem." Stan, Hope you remember to check. Ps. I have a spare eccentric one and if anybody is deperate they can have it for the cost of postage. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Stuart, I can confirm the above as I did not have any lock stops fitted when I bought my 5 in the early 80's. And had seen other cars with the same problem in repair shops. Sourced some eccentric ones from Moss in the 90's. When the RHS one scheared off in 2003 Moss could only supply the centric ones. However I still had a minor scoring which I described in a thread last December: "... it is probably causes by the tip of the edge of the castelleted nut on the trunnion .... After a long time and a lot of headscratching that is what I found on mine, albeit on the RHS. My LHS nut presented a flat face to the disc and thus no scratch on that disc. Jacked up there seems to be enough tolerance, however on full lock and under load it is rather different. A little filing of the tip cured the problem." Stan, Hope you remember to check. Ps. I have a spare eccentric one and if anybody is deperate they can have it for the cost of postage. Thanks for the reminder, I will check the orientation of that nut as well as the split pin ends.. I also wonder if that shield is not part of the problem as I had significant scoring on the back of my rotors that could not be explained by the trunnion pivot nut and it was more likely that a rock got trapped between the plate and the rotor. I tossed the old rotors rather than try and fix them. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Thanks for the reminder, I will check the orientation of that nut as well as the split pin ends.. I also wonder if that shield is not part of the problem as I had significant scoring on the back of my rotors that could not be explained by the trunnion pivot nut and it was more likely that a rock got trapped between the plate and the rotor. I tossed the old rotors rather than try and fix them. Stan Stan we used to have similar problems years ago on MK2 Jaguars as the shields were very close to the rear of the disc and have a slight lip facing the disc and would trap stones for a past time, especially out here in the "sticks". With the price of discs (sorry "rotors" on your side of the pond) there isnt really much point in having them skimmed. Though with reference to the semi metallic pads in another post on here they do tend to wear the discs out quicker. Stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR6 Poor Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 I have not read all the posts in this thread, however, I will relate my experience about 3 yrs. ago when I restored my TR6. I ordered all new trunions, the bushing kits, etc. for the front end. I bead blasted and painted all the parts. I installed all the new parts and assembled the suspension, however, I left the spring out. I was surprised to find that the suspension was locked up. I loosed the lower trunnion bolt, and the suspension unlocked. This resulted in an investigation of the bushings and spacers, I measured all the parts with micrometers and calibers, and was able to determine why when I tightened the bolt the suspension locked up. Most would have installed the spring, which would have masked the problem. I was able to access the original Triumph factory blueprint, which gave all the metal thickness and bushing specifications. It was determined that all the parts were made wrong, which will cause the suspension to lock up, or, I suspose, be loose. Anyhow, I checked with 3 suppliers, and, had them measure their parts, and all were made wrong, and one immediately saw what the result would be. I was able to find only 1 supplier in the USA with parts that were sized to the original factory specs., and when I installed them, I was still able to move the suspension up and down, without the spring installled. So, the moral of the story is, check everything, assume nothing, and when you are absoulutely certain you have it right, check it again. I am most certain that at least one of the suppliers still sold the poorly made parts. Buyer beware. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tony Millward Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 I have not read all the posts in this thread, however, I will relate my experience about 3 yrs. ago when I restored my TR6. I ordered all new trunions, the bushing kits, etc. for the front end. I bead blasted and painted all the parts. I installed all the new parts and assembled the suspension, however, I left the spring out. I was surprised to find that the suspension was locked up. I loosed the lower trunnion bolt, and the suspension unlocked. This resulted in an investigation of the bushings and spacers, I measured all the parts with micrometers and calibers, and was able to determine why when I tightened the bolt the suspension locked up. Most would have installed the spring, which would have masked the problem. I was able to access the original Triumph factory blueprint, which gave all the metal thickness and bushing specifications. It was determined that all the parts were made wrong, which will cause the suspension to lock up, or, I suspose, be loose. Anyhow, I checked with 3 suppliers, and, had them measure their parts, and all were made wrong, and one immediately saw what the result would be. I was able to find only 1 supplier in the USA with parts that were sized to the original factory specs., and when I installed them, I was still able to move the suspension up and down, without the spring installled. So, the moral of the story is, check everything, assume nothing, and when you are absoulutely certain you have it right, check it again. I am most certain that at least one of the suppliers still sold the poorly made parts. Buyer beware. Which particular parts were they?. I ask as I have rebuilt my front suspension and it seems very 'firm'.. Cheers Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR6 Poor Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 (edited) Which particular parts were they?. I ask as I have rebuilt my front suspension and it seems very 'firm'.. Cheers Tony The water shield metal thickness and the nylon spacer lip thickness, and metal spacer length have to be correct. Also, it was 1 out of 4 suppliers in the USA that I talked to who had it right . The one that had it right was TRF. The first kit I got that started the investigation had Quinton Hazel on the box, sold by a somewhat well know USA supplier. I don't know if I want to mention the other 2 who had it wrong, One by their own admission, and he told me he would remachine his. When I pointed out my problem, he measured his parts, and the Triumph suspension parts, and immediately saw the problem. He could not understand why someone had not bought this to his attention before. If they are made to the sizes listed on the Triumph factory drawings, the suspension works perfectly. When you torque the trunion bolt, with the coil spring removed, you should be able to move the suspension up and down by grabing the spindle with your hand, with jack stands placed under the frame of course. If you torque the trunion bolt, and cannot move the suspension up and down, loosen the bolt and try again. If you can then move the suspension, the parts are manufactured wrong, which can be verified by measurement. Edited February 26, 2009 by TR6 Poor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted February 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Which particular parts were they?. I ask as I have rebuilt my front suspension and it seems very 'firm'.. Cheers Tony The water shield metal thickness and the nylon spacer lip thickness, and metal spacer length have to be correct. Also, it was 1 out of 4 suppliers in the USA that I talked to who had it right . The one that had it right was TRF. The first kit I got that started the investigation had Quinton Hazel on the box, sold by a somewhat well know USA supplier. I don't know if I want to mention the other 2 who had it wrong, One by their own admission, and he told me he would remachine his. When I pointed out my problem, he measured his parts, and the Triumph suspension parts, and immediately saw the problem. He could not understand why someone had not bought this to his attention before. If they are made to the sizes listed on the Triumph factory drawings, the suspension works perfectly. When you torque the trunion bolt, with the coil spring removed, you should be able to move the suspension up and down by grabing the spindle with your hand, with jack stands placed under the frame of course. If you torque the trunion bolt, and cannot move the suspension up and down, loosen the bolt and try again. If you can then move the suspension, the parts are manufactured wrong, which can be verified by measurement. I just rebuilt my front end using Goodparts Nylatron bushes, TRF trunnions, ball joints and springs, Koni shocks, also from TRF. I tested the system before I put the spring in and verified that everything moved freely. It was stiff but easily moved with one hand grasping the stub axle. The instructions that came with the kit set torque limits for the fulcrum nuts and the trunnion nuts with a warning that over torquing will distort the SS sleeves and that the inner lower pivot bolts must be backed off if the shims are adjusted to allow the sleeves to re-align. From the description the sleeve length is critical as they get clamped and the bush rotates around them. The TRF ball joint on one side has that side effect I mentioned previously and locks up under tension from the spring with the suspension unsupported. I have a set of Moss ball joints which dont look quite as well made as the TRF units to try this weekend. BTW my old rubber bushes looked fine from a few feet but they were rock hard and once I had removed the spring I had a lot of play in the arms at the trunnion joint due to wear in those bushes. The trunnion and the bolt looked fine on one side, the bolt was and still is siezed into the trunnion on the other side and had no chance of rotating because I still cant budge it and had to resort to a hacksaw to free the front arm. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tony Millward Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 In that case let me inquire about the shock mount as the top rubber buffer is missing, the lock nut is missing and the cup washer is upside down... Stan Hi Stan, Thanks for the observations mate (good to see you don't miss much), that was a temporary setup, I have put things on correctly now it's all assembled. Do appreciate the input though.. Also many thanks for your information TR6poor, (don't know your real name). It looks like I'm going to have to remove my springs to check for free movement...bugger!. Cheers Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted February 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Ball joint update. I swapped out the TRF ball joints for the new ones from Moss and the steering now swivels freely with the suspension hanging. There is probably nothing wrong with the TRF ball joints and I expect they would have been fine with the car back on the ground but heck I like to be able to move the steering with the front off the ground so if that is an option only available with the Moss ball joints so be it. I'll keep the TRF units as spares. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.