mandarawessels Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 hi all tomorrow we are going to start up the engine , early Tr4. evreything connected, incl oilpressure gauge will the oil pressure gauge show a reading by just cranking over, without plugs? Once firing how long before we should see a oil pressure reading? tx, John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dazzer Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 Hi John Keep engine at idle and oil pressure will come up almost immediately, never timed it on a newly rebuilt engine, but within four/five seconds max. Dont raise tickover above idle until pressures up. I dont think your starter will be up to winding the engine over quickly enough to raise the oil pressure on the gauge. Dont use the choke as this will raise your RPM, just start without choke, try not to use the throttle and even if it takes a few attempts it will splutter into life and the oil pressure will come up pretty sharpish following this. All the best Dazzer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR 2100 Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 hi alltomorrow we are going to start up the engine , early Tr4. evreything connected, incl oilpressure gauge will the oil pressure gauge show a reading by just cranking over, without plugs? Once firing how long before we should see a oil pressure reading? tx, John. Yes it should, and this is the safeset way to do it. You will probably have no problem with oil pressure, but just in case, you don't want it firing up without oil pressure. AlanR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bob-menhennett Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 John I'd side with Alan.Spin it over on the starter with the plugs out, distributer cap and coil HT lead off. (Check your rotor arm is spinning whilst you can see it) If all is OK ,the pressure should register within a matter of seconds,exact time ? it's not a precise science.Without firing it up ,you are limiting potential damage to the engine. Spinning the engine over will operate the fuel pump, so check for petrol leaks at all the joints leading to the carbs. If the engine has been out.... earth strap connected ? Oil, water,fuel, battery fully charged in readiness ? If you get pressure,switch off, put the plugs back and fit the distributer cap and leads in the right order.A final check all round and hit the starter.I had my fire extinguisher to hand when I fired mine up but didn't need it thank God. Hope you got some overhead cover, the weather forecast is not briliant. Good luck. Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mandarawessels Posted October 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 ''If the engine has been out.... earth strap connected ? Oil, water,fuel, battery fully charged in readiness'' yes all that is done but I don' get a reading on the oil pressure gauge by cranking the engine. If I disconnect the plastic pipe from the gauge and suck on this pipe it won't let me suck anything, should I check the banjo connector on the oil filter? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 The starter will indeed be able to raise at least some oil pressure with the plugs out, and it shouldn't take more than a few seconds of cranking to see the gauge react. Make sure you have a good battery, fully charged - half-hearted cranking by a poor battery, unable to turn the engine fast enough to raise oil pressure, won't do any good at all after only a few seconds. You'll shift the assembly lube without replacing it with oil . . . Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bob-menhennett Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 John Can we rewind back a little before panicking. Is it a rebuilt engine, oilways cleaned and blown through with an airline,was the oil pump primed with vaseline before re-assembly. old type oil fliter or modern spin on conversion.was the oil filter filled with oil or fitted "dry ", how long did you eventually crank the engine over for ...a mater of seconds or until the battery went flat ? Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodri Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 (edited) John - It may take two minutes or so, in 20 secs bursts, to get up the first oil pressure with plugs out and nothing connected, but it is essential to do this before you actually start it. I had installed a new cam and had to keep the engine running at 2500 rpm for 20 mins. Edited October 4, 2008 by Rhodri Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mandarawessels Posted October 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 JohnCan we rewind back a little before panicking. Is it a rebuilt engine, oilways cleaned and blown through with an airline,was the oil pump primed with vaseline before re-assembly. old type oil fliter or modern spin on conversion.was the oil filter filled with oil or fitted "dry ", how long did you eventually crank the engine over for ...a mater of seconds or until the battery went flat ? Bob hi bob oilfilter original, everything cleaned etc. good news is: i removed the banjo (oil pressure take of point) and cleaned it . i used a tiny bit of blue hylomar and that clogged the oil take of, now when i suck on the plastic pipe i taste oil!! sweet!!! and even better cranking for 3 secs gives a decent oil pressure reading on the gauge. seems we'r ready for take off!! will keep you informed tx, John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bob-menhennett Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 John Great news. Runway clear for take off...chocks away !! I hope you've had those " smile muscles " in training, otherwise they will be aching for the next week with the silly grin of satisfaction on your face when it fires up. Regards Well done Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mandarawessels Posted October 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 JohnGreat news. Runway clear for take off...chocks away !! I hope you've had those " smile muscles " in training, otherwise they will be aching for the next week with the silly grin of satisfaction on your face when it fires up. Regards Well done Bob bob I'll tell you: CAN'T WAIT TILL TOMORROW ... all that hard work... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ade-TR4 Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 When you've got oil pressure up, let it idle at about 2,000rpm for a while. This should, apparently, let the cam bed in quickly. Good luck, see you back in Blighty!!!! Ade Quote Link to post Share on other sites
88V8 Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 'The first few moments of running are critical factors in the life of the camshaft. Once started, do not allow the engine to idle for the first 20 minutes and keep the revs to a minimum of 2500 rpm. This will ensure adequate lubrication of the cam and followers and reduce the contact force between the cam and follower. If any adjustments need to be made within the first 20 minutes, then shut the engine down. Do not allow the engine to idle.' I nicked these words of wisdom from here. http://www.burtonpower.com/technical_1/cam...ing_timing.aspx There's a lot of other stuff worth reading on this site, don't be put off that it's not about TRs, even though you've already built the engine it's worth reading so you can get a good glow from thinking 'yes I did that, and I did that and I checked that' etc etc. Ivor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mandarawessels Posted October 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 thanks Ivor! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mandarawessels Posted October 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 Hi All It fired up today but didn't run smoothly. It looks like the carb feeding cylinder 1 and 2 is not getting enough fuel when we fill it up it runs ok untill iit's used the fuel and goes on to run rough. Will fit a new diaphragm to the fuelpump this week to see if it solves the problem. Cheers, john Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bob-menhennett Posted October 5, 2008 Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 John If fuel is getting to the other carb OK...... it is more likely to be the front carb,either dirt/stuck float needle/ punctured float or an incorrect float level. If you have an orginal fuel pump, with a manual priming lever underneath, then a couple pumps ( ignition switched off ) with the fuel supply pipe disconnected and put into a jam jar will confirm "fuel supply" or just a "dribble " of petrol. No "disintegrating /suspect"rubber conectors in the system ? Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mandarawessels Posted October 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 JohnIf fuel is getting to the other carb OK...... it is more likely to be the front carb,either dirt/stuck float needle/ punctured float or an incorrect float level. If you have an orginal fuel pump, with a manual priming lever underneath, then a couple pumps ( ignition switched off ) with the fuel supply pipe disconnected and put into a jam jar will confirm "fuel supply" or just a "dribble " of petrol. No "disintegrating /suspect"rubber conectors in the system ? Bob Carbs are cleaned and all new gaskets, jets etc; fuel pipes, rubber connectors all new both carbs seem to have 2 fuel inlets. the fuel pipe goes first to the rear carb, from there to front carb with one of the 2 fuel connectors on the front carb 'capped'. after running the engine the fuelfloat chamber in the front carb is right down to the bottom! ?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodri Posted October 5, 2008 Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 John- Congratulations, at least it runs- you have put everything back together correctly.! Now for a little fine-tuning. Are your carbs Strombergs, if so has the front one, perhaps, got a hole in the diaphragm? I don't know if you have checked for rust etc in the fuel pipes, or in the front carb bowl. If it runs OK when you feed the front carb then there can not be much wrong I think. Rod Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodri Posted October 5, 2008 Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 (edited) John our posts crossed. Edited October 5, 2008 by Rhodri Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mandarawessels Posted October 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 John- Congratulations, at least it runs- you have put everything back together correctly.! Now for a little fine-tuning. Are your carbs Strombergs, if so has the front one, perhaps, got a hole in the diaphragm? I don't know if you have checked for rust etc in the fuel pipes, or in the front carb bowl. If it runs OK when you feed the front carb then there can not be much wrong I think. Rod hi Rod carbs are SU's and just about everything is new and clean the diaphragm in the fuelpump looks like it is 46 years old!! I strongly suspect that pump to not to be up to scratch. ordered a service kit from Moss, see what that does. cheerrs, John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodri Posted October 5, 2008 Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 John, there is a gauze filter in the pump, mine had varnished up solid, so I ordered a repair outfit from Moss, but they have been out of stock for some time, I had to get mine from Abingdon Parts, on this website. However, it didn't include the gauze which had, by now, disintregated. Moss had a gauze. The valves were pressed in and upon replacing them I damaged one trying to peen over the alloy to hold it in the pump. To cut a long story short, I got a new pump from Moss, it is a work of art, great! I think though that there are cheaper suppliers, perhaps TR Shop if the one they advertise is the same as the new one from Moss? Rod Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bob-menhennett Posted October 5, 2008 Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 John Mine has Strombergs but Bill Pigott's Original Triumph TR4/4a/5/6 shows SU carbs on an early TR4 Page 76.The front carb has the inlet from the fuel pipe and a supply going to the back carb.The rear carb only has a single inlet to the float chamber.I see Moss catalogue quotes two different tops to the float chambers front ( 2 pipes ) and rear ( single pipe ). Someone may have swapped carbs, years ago on your car.Might be worth switching the rubber fuel pipework to see if this improves things.I agree the refurb of the fuel pump is a worthwhile exercise anyway. Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mandarawessels Posted October 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 JohnMine has Strombergs but Bill Pigott's Original Triumph TR4/4a/5/6 shows SU carbs on an early TR4 Page 76.The front carb has the inlet from the fuel pipe and a supply going to the back carb.The rear carb only has a single inlet to the float chamber.I see Moss catalogue quotes two different tops to the float chambers front ( 2 pipes ) and rear ( single pipe ). Someone may have swapped carbs, years ago on your car.Might be worth switching the rubber fuel pipework to see if this improves things.I agree the refurb of the fuel pump is a worthwhile exercise anyway. Bob Hi Bob You're right about the 2 different floatchamber lids allthough mine are not identical they both have 2 pipe connectios why would the front lid be so much dearer then the rear one? I will fiddle with the pipe connections and see what happens cheers, john Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bob-menhennett Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 John The new stock price difference is down to there being only one outlet on the rear carb float chamber lid and an " extra/second" outlet on the front. As we all know .."if you want extras Sir,I'm afraid there will be an additional charge Sir !! " A more complicated moulding granted but twice the price ?? I'd swop the lids over and connect the pipework temporarily to see if it effects a cure and then trim pipework to correct length afterwards.I'm assuming the fuel pipe is new and that there is no chance of it being old , with potential for the internal rubber being partially collapsed/ perished reducing the flow rate ? Just another tip to add to Rod's post make a CAREFUL NOTE of which way up the two small "one way" valves in the fuel pump go.No prizes for guessing what happens if you get it the wrong way around. Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mandarawessels Posted October 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 JohnThe new stock price difference is down to there being only one outlet on the rear carb float chamber lid and an " extra/second" outlet on the front. As we all know .."if you want extras Sir,I'm afraid there will be an additional charge Sir !! " A more complicated moulding granted but twice the price ?? I'd swop the lids over and connect the pipework temporarily to see if it effects a cure and then trim pipework to correct length afterwards.I'm assuming the fuel pipe is new and that there is no chance of it being old , with potential for the internal rubber being partially collapsed/ perished reducing the flow rate ? Just another tip to add to Rod's post make a CAREFUL NOTE of which way up the two small "one way" valves in the fuel pump go.No prizes for guessing what happens if you get it the wrong way around. Bob Hi Bob i already gathered that those 2 little valves are a tricky part of the fuelpump I'm pretty sure that the answer as to why cylinders 1 and2 don't get enough fuel is in the chamber lids!! I'm using all copper pipes with only rubber to connect. were abouts are the air vents in the lids? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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