dixiechopshop Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 My dad came and saw the 250 yesterday and really liked it. he called me this morning and asked if he could come remove the dash as he wanted a shot at making a new wooden dash. Well I saved him some trouble and pulled the dash for him, and as I did I learned some new things. For starters my oil pressure tube is cracked and I can only seem to find the side connected to the gauge. also I have no idea what alot of the switches and knobs on this car do. Most of the white paint on my knobs has rubbed off and the ones that are left are of symbols that are strange to me. Ive found the choke, but what are the other three knobs? Are there two wiper switches? Are the two red lights between the speedo and thr tach turn singinals or what?{ the turns dont work either} Is there a standard flasher for the turns and if so where the heck is it? Is there some where that has a labeled dash pic,maybe? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 My dad came and saw the 250 yesterday and really liked it. he called me this morning and asked if he could come remove the dash as he wanted a shot at making a new wooden dash. Well I saved him some trouble and pulled the dash for him, and as I did I learned some new things. For starters my oil pressure tube is cracked and I can only seem to find the side connected to the gauge. also I have no idea what alot of the switches and knobs on this car do. Most of the white paint on my knobs has rubbed off and the ones that are left are of symbols that are strange to me. Ive found the choke, but what are the other three knobs? Are there two wiper switches? Are the two red lights between the speedo and thr tach turn singinals or what?{ the turns dont work either} Is there a standard flasher for the turns and if so where the heck is it? Is there some where that has a labeled dash pic,maybe? The oil pressure gauge should have an actual tube the runs from the engine just behind the distributor and above the oil filter directly to the oil pressure gauge. It may be a plastic tube or metal. Re knobs and switched, take a look at this exploded diagram from Moss http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProduct...teIndexID=32976 There are separate washer and wiper rocker switches on the 250 and early TR6. Later TR6's had an integrated rotary switch with a push to squirt feature, feeble by design. The two red lamps are the hazard warning on the left and the brake warning lamp on the right. Turn signal lamp should be a green lens in the lower part of the speedo and main beam lamp a blue lens also on the lower part of the speedo. The flasher unit - I'm not sure where that is on the 250. On the 6 it is over on the passenger footwell attached high up on the inner wing. Flashers are a whole new project/discussion as many issues may be related to bulbs and connectors and especially ground connections and not a problem with the flasher itself. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dixiechopshop Posted September 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 Im pretty decent with 12v wiring.I.e. flashers and whatnot. I am just going on the small bag of parts I found in the car. there was a bunch of bulbs and new flashers so it appears he was kinda guessing also. Sounds like If may be a ground but I havent taken a test light to anything yet. Pretty much all the dash light sockets are loose hanging behind the dash so I figured the best way to figure out what goes where was to get them working , go through the lights and match them up. thanks again Stan. Ijumped to a new topic cause I wasnt sure if it was propper to keep on the same thread with a bunch of diffrent topics. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 Im pretty decent with 12v wiring.I.e. flashers and whatnot. I am just going on the small bag of parts I found in the car. there was a bunch of bulbs and new flashers so it appears he was kinda guessing also. Sounds like If may be a ground but I havent taken a test light to anything yet. Pretty much all the dash light sockets are loose hanging behind the dash so I figured the best way to figure out what goes where was to get them working , go through the lights and match them up. thanks again Stan. Ijumped to a new topic cause I wasnt sure if it was propper to keep on the same thread with a bunch of diffrent topics. Jeff The blinkers can be a pain in the a*s because the system is designed around a bi-metalic switch that relies on a specific load on the system to operate and operate at the correct speed. The system is designed this way so that a bulb failure would be obvious to you as the flashers would either fail to operate or would flash at a maniacal rate but the flaw is that even if the bulbs are all working and are of the correct wattage any other problem in the system like a faulty socket, connection or ground will also cause the system to malfunction and good luck tracking that down. I have this exact problem today (20 years and never could fix it) and am still using a hazard flasher in place of the correct indicator flasher unit. The hazard flasher units are brute force and will flash regardless. They just have the wrong start sequence and the wrong flash rate for the purists. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dixiechopshop Posted September 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 Wow that does sound like a pain. What is the correct wattage for the bulbs? All running, brake and other lights work fine. even the high/low beam switch works. but the insturment and turn lights just dont do jack. Usually in my line of work that means bad fuse, but Ive only found the three fuses and none of them are blown. like I say though the dash wiring is a bit of a mess so it will take some sorting out and a bit of learning to get it funcutional. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Wow that does sound like a pain. What is the correct wattage for the bulbs? All running, brake and other lights work fine. even the high/low beam switch works. but the insturment and turn lights just dont do jack. Usually in my line of work that means bad fuse, but Ive only found the three fuses and none of them are blown. like I say though the dash wiring is a bit of a mess so it will take some sorting out and a bit of learning to get it funcutional. The blinkers and the instrument lamps are on different circuits so you probably have two different problems. According to the circuit diagram for the 250 you have a dimmer rheostat for the panel lamps. I dont know where it is on your car but on the TR6 it is in the center of the dashboard. These often fail either partially or completely so the first thing I would do is find that knob and turn it fully anti-clockwise and then turn it clockwise just enough to move it onto the track. That will be its brightest position (which is dim...) and then it gets dimmer as you continue rotating clockwise. If it is partially worn out the lamps will go out at some point as you rotate. If it is totally worn out the lamps wont work at all. You can just connect the two wires and bypass it for now. You can download a pdf with the circuit diagram from http://www.advanceautowire.com/ Click on the link on the left "Stock Schematics" and look for the TR250/TR6 link. Your front and rear turn lamps should all be 21W BTW dont be tempted to fit higher wattage bulbs to the dash instruments. They are 2.2W and fitting anything brighter will MELT the plastic filters. I havent seen any evidence that using LED's here helps. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dixiechopshop Posted September 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Ok, the rheostat was one of the things on the dash I wasnt sure what it did. I may of jusr had it turned all the way down. Ill have to check that. Once again my stupidy of this car shines bright. Ill figure it all out one day. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dixiechopshop Posted September 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 Today I jumped the wires on the rheostat LIke you suggusted Stan.I got lights on the four center gauges but still nothing in the turn signal dept. or the speedo and tach. Its a decent start though. I noticed that the rheostat seemed a bit dirty so I may try to simpily clean the contact points.Wishful thinking I know but worth a shot. Is there any body that offers used parts such as switches and these rheostat? I think moss wanted over two hundred bucks for theres. KInda pricy for a guy on my budget.Also I dont seem to have noticed 12v+ going through only one of the three glass fuses. What is each of these fuses for and does any one know the correct amps they should be? Thanks! Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 (edited) Today I jumped the wires on the rheostat LIke you suggusted Stan.I got lights on the four center gauges but still nothing in the turn signal dept. or the speedo and tach. Its a decent start though. I noticed that the rheostat seemed a bit dirty so I may try to simpily clean the contact points.Wishful thinking I know but worth a shot. Is there any body that offers used parts such as switches and these rheostat? I think moss wanted over two hundred bucks for theres. KInda pricy for a guy on my budget.Also I dont seem to have noticed 12v+ going through only one of the three glass fuses. What is each of these fuses for and does any one know the correct amps they should be? Thanks! Jeff Re the instrument lights, pay attention to the ground connections. The speedo and tach each have an independent ground, a black wire with a connector that gets attached under one of the two gnurled nuts that attaches the speedo and tach clamps. The fuses are all 35A UK, which is different from 35A US for reasons that I cannot explain but may not be critical at this stage. eBay is often the best source for parts unless you are in a hurry. Good used parts or even used parts that you need to refurb are often better than the cheap repro Chinese junk. I cant say enough bad things about the few new switches I have bought for my TR6. As I mentioned earlier, turn signals are a whole new discussion. If they are not working it can be a can of worms and involve the hazard switch. Re the fuses and what do they do, download the pdf of the schematic that I provided a link to in an earlier post. That will show you the three main circuits (Red, Purple, Green) and what they do. Stan Edited September 3, 2008 by foster461 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dixiechopshop Posted September 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 Yeah I remembered the schematic after I posted last and went to check it out. Ill most likely re check some connections tommarow.Thanks again Stan. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 How much do a Workshop Manual, a Parts Book and a copy of Bill Piggott's "Original Triumph TR4/4A/5/6" cost - it must surely be worth the investment just to have so many of the answers in print? Much the same as having a decent socket set, axle stands, jack etc. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dixiechopshop Posted September 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 Suppose your telling me to quit being so damn dumb and buy some books, even though there are others who seem extremely helpful on this very site. Sorry for my ingnorance Mr.Cornish. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tony Millward Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Suppose your telling me to quit being so damn dumb and buy some books, even though there are others who seem extremely helpful on this very site. Sorry for my ingnorance Mr.Cornish. Hey Jeff, I've been collecting books like mad but it's still easy to miss something in them that you need to know about. I much prefer the straight forward and honest answers by someone who has done what I am doing, from the forums. Your on your own with a book but not with the forums. You own a Triumph, so you can't be 'dumb'. regards Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Suppose your telling me to quit being so damn dumb and buy some books, even though there are others who seem extremely helpful on this very site. Sorry for my ingnorance Mr.Cornish. I think Ian is saying that having some reference material handy will save you some time and aggravation particularly when you are in the middle of a project and you need to know how something is fitted or configured. Just like having the right tools so you dont have to stop and go out and buy or borrow a wrench each time you need it. You will generally always get an answer here but occasionally it might take a while and if all you need to know is what a particular wire does or what thread a particular bolt has then the books can deliver that detail instantly. This forum is ideal for the how-to stuff as much of the detail in the book is absent or has hidden quirks that you need to know but are not well documented. Start with the online version of the TR6 factory manual and the TR250-TR6 wiring diagrams that I think we have provided pointers to already. Those are zero cost and very handy to have on your PC. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
david ferry Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Jeff, I have read your recent post referring to Ian Cornish a few times and I feel that your comments are not terribly well thought out or directed. Ian Cornish, besides being Vice President of the TR Register, although you possibly would not know that as you seem to not be a member, is one of the most helpful, polite and pleasant people you could wish to meet. Clearly you have never met him. I think Stan's comments and thoughts are well composed. I would urge you to reconsider your comments, which to me appear to be somewhat off-hand and also tainted with sarcasm. Keep asking questions, you will get the benefit of others experience but do buy some books to provide you with a source for the more standard reference material. You will find them helpful. Good luck with your rebuild project. David Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Fremont Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 How much do a Workshop Manual, a Parts Book and a copy of Bill Piggott's "Original Triumph TR4/4A/5/6" cost - it must surely be worth the investment just to have so many of the answers in print? Much the same as having a decent socket set, axle stands, jack etc.Ian Cornish These are great to have but lately I saw Bill Piggot's book offered on ebay for $150 and I have no recent price for a Bentley, but doubt these are cheap either I got mine back in the 20th century - as I recall the Bentley cost me $17.50. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
angelfj Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 My dad came and saw the 250 yesterday and really liked it. he called me this morning and asked if he could come remove the dash as he wanted a shot at making a new wooden dash. Well I saved him some trouble and pulled the dash for him, and as I did I learned some new things. For starters my oil pressure tube is cracked and I can only seem to find the side connected to the gauge. also I have no idea what alot of the switches and knobs on this car do. Most of the white paint on my knobs has rubbed off and the ones that are left are of symbols that are strange to me. Ive found the choke, but what are the other three knobs? Are there two wiper switches? Are the two red lights between the speedo and thr tach turn singinals or what?{ the turns dont work either} Is there a standard flasher for the turns and if so where the heck is it? Is there some where that has a labeled dash pic,maybe? Dixie: Things are very casual around here, so it would be nice to know if you have a real name and a little about your project. I think that you have given some of the folks here a false impression. For example, I am sure you wouldn't be attempting to restore this car with only a screwdriver and pair of slip-joint pliers. Correct??? You most likely have a decent set of mechanics tools. A good reference manual is just like a good tool. So, my suggestion to you is to invest $45 and get yourself a decent shop manual. see http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=083...triumptr6pageA/ You couldn't buy a decent set of sockets for that much, and believe me you will need this book. Bentley is the best, but Haynes is OK and there are a few others. You may also be able to find one in your local library. Also, contact the folks at TCOC, The Triumph Club of the Carolinas. see http://www.triumphclub.org/ I am sure someone there can help. If you get stumped feel free to send me a PM. I've owned my 250 since 1983 and also a 4A and currently I am restoring a 3A. We are here to help. Cheers, Frank Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Dixie: Things are very casual around here, so it would be nice to know if you have a real name and a little about your project. I think that you have given some of the folks here a false impression. For example, I am sure you wouldn't be attempting to restore this car with only a screwdriver and pair of slip-joint pliers. Correct??? You most likely have a decent set of mechanics tools. A good reference manual is just like a good tool. So, my suggestion to you is to invest $45 and get yourself a decent shop manual. see http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=083...triumptr6pageA/ You couldn't buy a decent set of sockets for that much, and believe me you will need this book. Bentley is the best, but Haynes is OK and there are a few others. You may also be able to find one in your local library. Also, contact the folks at TCOC, The Triumph Club of the Carolinas. see http://www.triumphclub.org/I am sure someone there can help. If you get stumped feel free to send me a PM. I've owned my 250 since 1983 and also a 4A and currently I am restoring a 3A. We are here to help. Cheers, Frank Frank, Jeff introduced himself in this thread: http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index....st&p=102345 Jeff, since many of us have never met and online forums lack many of the signals that humans use when communicating is it best to just chill out and even if someone is having a bit of a dig at you just let it go by and stick to the topic. It is rare that we have deliberate personal attacks and I can tell you that in this case Ian is just trying to be helpful, he is not suggesting that you stop asking questions as we all know that the learning curve is steep for new owners of these old cars. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
angelfj Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Frank, Jeff introduced himself in this thread: http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index....st&p=102345 Jeff, since many of us have never met and online forums lack many of the signals that humans use when communicating is it best to just chill out and even if someone is having a bit of a dig at you just let it go by and stick to the topic. It is rare that we have deliberate personal attacks and I can tell you that in this case Ian is just trying to be helpful, he is not suggesting that you stop asking questions as we all know that the learning curve is steep for new owners of these old cars. Stan Stan: Many thanks for pointing that out to me - yet another senior moment. Jeff - sorry for missing your intro. and - as I said in my post , don't hesitate to ask a question or send a PM. Good luck, Frank Quote Link to post Share on other sites
angelfj Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Frank, Jeff introduced himself in this thread: http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index....st&p=102345 Jeff, since many of us have never met and online forums lack many of the signals that humans use when communicating is it best to just chill out and even if someone is having a bit of a dig at you just let it go by and stick to the topic. It is rare that we have deliberate personal attacks and I can tell you that in this case Ian is just trying to be helpful, he is not suggesting that you stop asking questions as we all know that the learning curve is steep for new owners of these old cars. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodri Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Hi Tom, unless they have sold out, the book "Original TR4 4A 5 and 6" is £25 from the Register shop, plus postage, possibly cheaper than $175. Rod Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dixiechopshop Posted September 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Wow! Sorry guys I wasnt meaning to sound sarcastis to Mr.Cornish at all! I was actually kinda calling myself dumb ,but after reading it again I see how how it could be miss read. I do apoligize. What I meant was I have found all of you on here very helpful and kind.That knowledge and understanding is hard to find in any book.I looked at Mr.Cornish's profile before I responded , and didnt realize his importance of the site, but did realize that he was my elder and I try to treat my elders with respect,thus the Mr.Cornish. Again sorry if I ruffeled any feathers,And to Mr. Cornish personaly I do apoligize,I meant no disrespect. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Hi Jeff, don't panic - I can't get my head around Mr.Cornish I think he would prefer Ian. keep asking the questions. Believe it or not there are many people who benefit from your questions Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Dear Jeff, Sorry my original comments were somewhat terse (I've re-read them) - the last thing I would wish to do would be to discourage someone who is enthusiastic, which you clearly are. Yes, I am older than you, but that doesn't mean I know everything, nor that you have to call me Mr Cornish - I much prefer Ian. I think the Forum is an excellent medium for getting rapid answers to the sort of problems which are not covered by the standard publications - I am amazed at the way enthusiasts world-wide pile in with tips, advice and opinions when questions are posted, and I think it is a great strength of our club. Jeff - I wish you all the very best in your endeavours and great enjoyment with your car in the future. Owning TRs since 1963 has certainly slowed the ageing process for many, including me! Ian (Cornish - but you knew that already!) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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