Bending Copper Tube

[stuart]

Thats a very interesting though possibly somewhat biased article Guy. I believe that copper pipes are not strictly legal as a replacement in some european countries where steel pipes were originally fitted, especially Germany and probably Switzerland where the testing regime for older cars can be quite strict.

Stuart.

Edited December 13, 2007 by stuart

[Jersey Royal]

Thats a very interesting though possibly somewhat biased article Guy. I believe that copper pipes are not strictly legal as a replacement in some european countries where steel pipes were originally fitted, especially Germany and probably Switzerland where the testing regime for older cars can be quite strict.

Stuart.

 

 

Hi Stuart,

 

What do you reckon to my bendiong skills ?, am still working on the flaring technique, mastered a single flare, will that surfice or is more practice needed for a double?

 

Yes that article is bound to be biased as it produced by the copper industrys, still have fully read though

 

 

Regards

Guy

[BrianC]

I believe that copper pipes are not strictly legal as a replacement in some european countries where steel pipes were originally fitted, especially Germany and probably Switzerland where the testing regime for older cars can be quite strict.

Does that only apply to the testing of cars registered in those countries, or is there a possibility that a UK car fitted with copper pipes could be deemed illegal, possibly invalidating the owner's insurance, in the event of an accident or spot-check police inspection?

[stuart]

Does that only apply to the testing of cars registered in those countries, or is there a possibility that a UK car fitted with copper pipes could be deemed illegal, possibly invalidating the owner's insurance, in the event of an accident or spot-check police inspection?

Brian as far as I know having restored cars for owners in Europe it only applies to cars registered and resident in some states. Cars that are registered with a current MOT in UK are ok. One of My German customers has a Healey3000 that is still registered in UK and he brings it over touring every year and has it re MOTed over here as its not good enough to pass the very strict German Taft (MOT).

Obviously you would need an insurance Green Card or whatever the equivalent is now for wherever you are going and also a copy(or originals Im not entirely certain which but Im sure RAC/AA would tell you) of the registration docs/ MOT as well.

Stuart.

[stuart]

Hi Stuart,

 

What do you reckon to my bendiong skills ?, am still working on the flaring technique, mastered a single flare, will that surfice or is more practice needed for a double?

 

Yes that article is bound to be biased as it produced by the copper industrys, still have fully read though

 

 

Regards

Guy

Guy the bends look fine to me, as to the question of single or double flare it depends on what end the pipe is to be screwed into. Generally a Male end has a single flare and a Female end has a double flare. The one that you have shown in the picture should have a double flare on both ends. What flaring tool do you have as its normally: Step 1 is single flare and then step 2 is for double flare, in other words you do the single flare (step1) and then with the pipe still held in the tool change flaring end over and do step 2 with the flaring end for double flare. Hope that is clear enough if not you have my number give me a ring and I will try and talk you through it. Oh and its normally easier to flare the pipes before bending them as you can slide the nuts up the pipe further away to give clearance for the flaring tool to work.

Stuart.

Edited December 14, 2007 by stuart

[Jersey Royal]

Guy the bends look fine to me, as to the question of single or double flare it depends on what end the pipe is to be screwed into. Generally a Male end has a single flare and a Female end has a double flare. The one that you have shown in the picture should have a double flare on both ends. What flaring tool do you have as its normally: Step 1 is single flare and then step 2 is for double flare, in other words you do the single flare (step1) and then with the pipe still held in the tool change flaring end over and do step 2 with the flaring end for double flare. Hope that is clear enough if not you have my number give me a ring and I will try and talk you through it. Oh and its normally easier to flare the pipes before bending them as you can slide the nuts up the pipe further away to give clearance for the flaring tool to work.

Stuart.

 

 

 

Thanks Stuart,

 

All double flared, fitted, and NO leaks.

It helped to put a little oil on the pointy bit of the flaring tool.

 

HOO RAH

( its freezing in my garage)

 

 

Cheers

 

Guy

Edited December 14, 2007 by Jersey Royal

[RogerH]

It always helps to oil the pointy bit.

 

Roger

[stuart]

Thanks Stuart,

 

All double flared, fitted, and NO leaks.

It helped to put a little oil on the pointy bit of the flaring tool.

 

HOO RAH

( its freezing in my garage)

 

 

Cheers

 

Guy

Well done Guy thats another little job done

Stuart.

[jean]

Here is one of several reports I saw on brake-line and fuel-line plumbing, so make up your mind

http://www.dimebank.com/BrakePlumbing.html

[Guest ron]

In the UK, 'copper' brake pipes are a normally an alloy of copper and a small percentage phosphorous, grade C106, it has a max working pressure of 3100 psi [for 3/16" dia] and is ideal for the job. If the pipe is adequately supported and can't move or vibrate, work hardening is not a problem, the constant on/off of pressure is actually a benefit, it hardens the metal without making it brittle. The only time you will have problems with work hardening is if you repeatedly make and remake a bend without annealing the metal. I would suggest if you don't get a bend right after two attempts you should anneal the copper, ie heat it to red and let it cool either naturally or quench. I would also suggest not rebending a copper pipe that has been used on a car for a while without annealing as it will be hard.

I've never needed them for brake pipes but you can buy model engineers bending springs, same idea as plumbers ones except smaller, they are ideal for tightish bends without the pipe collapsing.

Ron

Edited December 15, 2007 by ron

[jean]

I think it's not only a question of material, but you also have to make sure that the pipes you use are drawn seemless, what's not always the case for pipes you buy in DIY shops. As far as I'm concerned my choice is Cunifer for brakes and fuel. For motorcar applications these pipes are fabricated seemle :)ss

[Guest ron]

Jean

In the UK brake pipes should be to the relevent British Standard, in the case of copper it is BS 2871 Pt 2, the pipe should be certified 100% electronically tested and internally clean. I think it would be difficult to buy small bore copper tube in this country that isn't seamless, certainly in many years of model engineering I've never come across it. Copper pipe for small bore central heating is not suitable for brake pipes in classic cars, it's metric for a starter!

Kunifer is a yet another copper alloy containing nickel and a very small amount of iron, from memory the nickel content can vary from 5 to 30% depending on which grade you choose, so unless it is to the relevent BS for brake pipe use I would be wary of it.

Ron

Edited December 15, 2007 by ron