Jersey Royal Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 (edited) Hi All. As i have been waiting for new bearing to arrive i have been having a good poke are the front suspension. I have fitted a Front Antiroll bar, which is uprated and was fitted by Revington some ten years back. Once it was fitted with the rest of the mods they were doing to the car i have never paid it ant attention. My question is (excuse my ignorance) are they adjustable ? Here is the link to lower wishbone. One think that i have noticed is that the bar will move in its blue poly mounts from side to side if i push it, is that normal? Regards Guy Edited August 23, 2007 by Jersey Royal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marvmul Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Moving the bar in the blue poly bushes has very little or no effect. The long nut is used to remove any strain (check with the car on a flat floor) Only moving the positions of upper and/or lower ball(?) joints will alter the rate : softer when the upper joint (on the wishbone) is moved toward the centerline of the car(= shorter lever) and also softer when the lower joint (on the bar) is moved to the outer end of the bar (= longer lever). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted August 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Moving the bar in the blue poly bushes has very little or no effect.The long nut is used to remove any strain (check with the car on a flat floor) Only moving the positions of upper and/or lower ball(?) joints will alter the rate : softer when the upper joint (on the wishbone) is moved toward the centerline of the car(= shorter lever) and also softer when the lower joint (on the bar) is moved to the outer end of the bar (= longer lever). Hi Marmvul Thanks for you reply. When yiou say .. The long nut is used to remove any strain (check with the car on a flat floor) I am not sure how this would work, as when the car is on the floor that long nut could be tightened right up , which would bring the roll bar higher . Or it could be slackened, which would lower the bar. In both scenarios the actual link bar would be rigid. Am totaly lost with regard to upper and lower ball joints, there are no ball joints on this linkage. Sorry to be so dense. I have looked at a few pictures of linkages and none are like the one pictured above. Regards Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IanR Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Hi Guy, I spy an RTR front ARB as I too have one on both this and my last TR5, but I also spy that yours is in serious lack of lubrication, Just because they are rose joints does not mean they do not deserve the occaisional squirt of some oil. I see no stians whatso ever of them ever having been so treated. Also my joint linkages are such that the bar is approx parallel to the road on the bent part attached to the lower wishbone but yet the linkage (rose joint links I mean) are vertical not at an angle as yours appear to be. Yours may be correct so suggest you contact Neil and establish orientation, but it definately needs a bit of lube!!! Cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted August 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 (edited) Hi Guy, I spy an RTR front ARB as I too have one on both this and my last TR5, but I also spy that yours is in serious lack of lubrication, Just because they are rose joints does not mean they do not deserve the occaisional squirt of some oil. I see no stians whatso ever of them ever having been so treated. Also my joint linkages are such that the bar is approx parallel to the road on the bent part attached to the lower wishbone but yet the linkage (rose joint links I mean) are vertical not at an angle as yours appear to be. Yours may be correct so suggest you contact Neil and establish orientation, but it definately needs a bit of lube!!! Cheers Hi Ian, Yes am afraid to say those rose joints have never had a drop of oil in ten years. Never thought about them to be honest. The picture is taken with the wheel off the car and car jacked up that could account for the angle. I think as i have been bad to my rose joints, have to get some replacements from Revingtons Thanks for you advise. Regards Guy Update.. Just undone the one in the photo, the top rose joint is actually slightly bent, am sure i can sort that. They were bone dry, so have lubed them up and will see how they are in the morning. Edited August 23, 2007 by Jersey Royal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marvmul Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Guy, I could not see if ball joints or other joints (Rose Joints) are fitted, hence the '?' Removing the strain : one of the bolts holding the rose joints has to be removed, then the nut is turned till the bolt can be replaced without applying force to the bar or without bending the bar. From the picture, the bar seems not to be adjustible, because the position on the wishbone or the length of bar (the part of bar that is bended to the rear) can not be changed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jean Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 Guy, I looked again at the picture showing the roll-bar on your 6 and I must admit the mounting does not make me a happy person. I have the impression that the rose joint link is not designed for this peticular bar, it probably works with a narrow bar. In fact the load on the bar, triggert by chassis roll, should be applied at an angle of 90deg, to say vertically. In a slant position, what is the case on your car, the chassis roll will push the bar in a lateral movement from left to right depending of the turn On all TR's, on rest, I have seen the link between lower wishbone and bar is positioned more or less straight down and not slant. Would be interested to hear what other people think about it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 Guy, I looked again at the picture showing the roll-bar on your 6 and I must admit the mounting does not make me a happy person. I have the impression that the rose joint link is not designed for this peticular bar, it probably works with a narrow bar. In fact the load on the bar, triggert by chassis roll, should be applied at an angle of 90deg, to say vertically. In a slant position, what is the case on your car, the chassis roll will push the bar in a lateral movement from left to right depending of the turn On all TR's, on rest, I have seen the link between lower wishbone and bar is positioned more or less straight down and not slant. Would be interested to hear what other people think about it. Jean I agree the drop links should be vertical otherwise the forces are not working correctly and are simply pushing the bar from side to side. My 2 has a longer roll bar fitted and is linked vertically to the wishbones with a bracket between the outer two spring pan bolts thus working on the very outer end of the roll centre. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IanR Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 Guy, I agree with Jean, and further to my original post above I am happy that my set up is correct, the bar is about parallel with the road and the rose jointed vertical links are vertical. Jean, this bar is one of Revingtons own and was designed with this rose jointed link in mind. Guy, I think what you have to do is bring the whole roll bar forwards to make the vertical links vertical. I can't see if yours is bolted to the radiator protection guard in the same way mine is but there is a limited amount of movement in the bolt holes that clamp that guard to the chassis. Try that first, if thats not enough you may need to drill another set of holes further forward. I cant post a pic of mine to you at present as the whole car is away having some remedial work done on it and I wont get it back for a couple of weeks Cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted August 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 (edited) Thanks Jean and Ian for your posts. That explains alot, but i cant work out why its in the position it is. Thinking back ten years its highly likely that the fitting of the bar was done by a local company on the rock , the part supplied by RTR but obvoiusly not fitted by them. When i had work done on the car by RTR ten years ago i was in the Uk for a period, the car was dropped off to them and they carried out various items of work, and car picked up several weeks latter. From memory rear suspension coil over shock, front suspension, engine bits, fuel injection etc . So the actual bits they carried out at that time are rather vague to me now. I have the bar off at present as suspension is also in bits being painted and am awaiting parts before reassembly. Once i have that back together i will revisit the roll bar position. However here is a picy of the position of the old bush in position, which seems to me the bar is as far forward as it can be Regards Guy Edited August 31, 2007 by Jersey Royal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted August 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 (edited) I have re read you last post Ian And what you are saying is to move the radiator protector forward. This makes sense. A couple of years ago i was driving along happily and was confronted with the rear end of a car being reversed into the road. The result being new front left wing, bonnet and valance. It is quite possible that the bodywork chaps may have moved the protector and not positioned it back correctly. Will have a look at this once suspension is back in. Regards Guy Edited August 31, 2007 by Jersey Royal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted September 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 Hi Chaps, i have had a look the rad protector, it seems to be in the correct place all the holes line up. So i am at a loss, may be it will be clearer once the rest of the suspension is back together, when the parts arrive eventually. Regards Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jean Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 (edited) Guy, There are two possibilities. Or your bar is too wide compared to the original, or the drop links are positioned too close to the chassis frame. As far as I can see the original links are positioned closer to the wheels as they are fitted to extensions attached to the bolts. If you miss the size of the original bar I can measure mine and forward it to you ? I think there are specific brackets available, like the one Steward showed in the picture, that bolt under two wishbone bolts what brings the drop link further outwards vertically above the bar eye Edited September 1, 2007 by jean Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted September 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 (edited) Guy, There are two possibilities. Or your bar is too wide compared to the original, or the drop links are positioned too close to the chassis frame. As far as I can see the original links are positioned closer to the wheels as they are fitted to extensions attached to the bolts. If you miss the size of the original bar I can measure mine and forward it to you ?I think there are specific brackets available, like the one Steward showed in the picture, that bolt under two wishbone bolts what brings the drop link further outwards vertically above the bar eye Hi Jean I have measured mine . Bar is 7/8 inch thick. Overall across front outside to outside is 261/4 inch From front of bar to centre of hole is 10 3/4 inch taken in a straight line At rear of bar centre of hole to centre of hole is 36/8 Regards Guy Edited September 1, 2007 by Jersey Royal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 (edited) Dont know if this may help to illustrate a bar with straight drop links. This time on TR5 uprated Moss bar. Stuart. Edited September 1, 2007 by stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted September 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 Dont know if this may help to illustrate a bar with straight drop links. This time on TR5 uprated Moss bar.Stuart. Thanks for the photo, I understand the links should be vertical, think theres not alot i can do till suspension is all back in place. A photo of the actual link to wishbone , and a side view of the rad protector showing roll bar connection and connection of protector to chassis. Would be usefull. Theres no rush. Thanks Stuart AGAIN Regards Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 Guy I will have to get some photos sent to me as I only have sidescreen cars in at the moment and my 4a doesnt have roll bar. I will see if I can get some for Monday. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted September 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 GuyI will have to get some photos sent to me as I only have sidescreen cars in at the moment and my 4a doesnt have roll bar. I will see if I can get some for Monday. Stuart. Cheers Stuart Your a star, owe you a pint a Malvern 2008. Regards Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jean Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 Two scans of : Drop link on a TR6 roll bar and link details Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Guy possibly not much help but this is a standard 6 roll bar measurements outer end to outer end on eyes is 36 1/4" I am going to do some leadfilling on a TR5 on site for a customer tomorrow who also has a 6 so I will try and take some detailed photos of the roll bar installation on the rad shield if thats any help. PM me your email address and I will send them direct as I always end up running out of space on here for attachments. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
david ferry Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Guy, As it is a Revington bar, and you are a Revington customer, I would speak to the source and find out how it should be installed. The mountings onto the lower wishbones are different, the bar is different. No point comparing your set up to a standard TR setup.....It's different. Call Revington TR. Regards David Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted September 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 (edited) Guy, As it is a Revington bar, and you are a Revington customer, I would speak to the source and find out how it should be installed. The mountings onto the lower wishbones are different, the bar is different. No point comparing your set up to a standard TR setup.....It's different. Call Revington TR. Regards David David Thanks had not thought of that I have spocken to Revingtons about this linkage and the position of it is apparently ok. However i am going to forward them a picy once the rest of the suspension is in place. My reason for comparing the set ups was reallly to see if they are as slack, it does seem to me they are tighter Regards GUY Edited September 3, 2007 by Jersey Royal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jean Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Guy, here are 2 pictures featuring the antirollbar on my 6. It's the original bar now 37 years old and maybe a little tired, the droplinks have been replaced about 15 years ago. The bar is rock-solid in the brackets, except the tiny rotation movement. This all original as the car is unrestored Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jean Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Guy, here the second picture, posted twice the same Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted September 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Guy, here the second picture, posted twice the same Jean, Thanks very much for taking the time to post those pictures. Your linkadge looks much stiiffer and stronger than the one i have. Once i get a reply from my e mail to my supplier i will let you know. Thanks Again Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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