K&N Filters

[Stevie P]

Hi there

 

Anyone got any experience of running a car with the K&Ns that fit directly to the throttle bodies, where you have 3 filters that look similar to weber fitting?

 

Any pictures out there of them fitted please.

 

Thanks,

 

Steve

[spiro]

Hi there

 

Anyone got any experience of running a car with the K&Ns that fit directly to the throttle bodies, where you have 3 filters that look similar to weber fitting?

 

Any pictures out there of them fitted please.

 

Thanks,

 

Steve

Hi Steve

I've fitted a set on mine this year before the Greek trip, car ran well with them. Induction nosier when accelerating hard but not too bad. Hope these picture are ok if need more let us know.

Cheers

Spiro

[PILKIE]

Hi Steve

I've fitted a set on mine this year before the Greek trip, car ran well with them. Induction nosier when accelerating hard but not too bad. Hope these picture are ok if need more let us know.

Cheers

Spiro

 

Hi Spiro.

 

The posted pic only comes up really small , I cannot see it at all well!!

 

DAVE

Edited August 18, 2007 by PILKIE

[scotty]

 

 

 

these any better

[Stevie P]

these any better

 

 

Hi Scotty

 

Filters look great, did they come from Moss?

 

Also, where did you the rocker cover?

 

Thanks.

 

Steve

[PILKIE]

these any better

 

BRILL!!!!! I WANT SOME NOW!!

[spiro]

Hi Spiro.

 

The posted pic only comes up really small , I cannot see it at all well!!

 

DAVE

Try again hope these are better

Spiro

Edited August 18, 2007 by spiro

[Stevie P]

Try again hope these are better

Spiro

 

 

Hi Spiro

 

Where does the rocker cover breather pipe go to?

 

Steve

[Andy Moltu]

BRILL!!!!! I WANT SOME NOW!!

 

Before you get to carried away remember that you'll be sucking in hot that's passed through the radiator, and further heated by being above the the manifold, which is less dense and so you'll sacrifice power unless you shield them from the heat and duct in cool air from in front of the rad.

 

A more efficient solution is to enlarge the plenum to 4" diameter & put a bigger filter up front of the rad.

[spiro]

Before you get to carried away remember that you'll be sucking in hot that's passed through the radiator, and further heated by being above the the manifold, which is less dense and so you'll sacrifice power unless you shield them from the heat and duct in cool air from in front of the rad.

 

A more efficient solution is to enlarge the plenum to 4" diameter & put a bigger filter up front of the rad.

Hi

Ref to the breather pipes they go to an oil catcher tank bolted onto the bulk head. Hot air is dealt with an air duct feed from the front of the car from the Rad cowling, where the standard air filter bin would have been. I had a larger new side panel made R D design who make a very good metal alternative rad cowls. A 4'' hole with a bit of heater trunking diverts cold air when you are travelling so that exhaust gases and heat from the radiator are helped to clear the air filter area.

sorry if pictures are not to clear

 

 

Cheers

Spiro

[stephen cooper]

The main issue with the above is that fitting the K&Ns direct to the throttle bodies is shortening the inlet tract, which happens to be too short as standard anyway! Ram pipes bringing the k&ns right out to the inner wing would be much better bearing in mind the 95mm stroke. The standard system runs into restrictions at higher revs and is a tin box over the exhaust manifold anyway. So with some decent ducting the hot air isn't really a problem and not enough to cancel out the more free flowing setup imo.

 

(edit) if you fit a 6-3-1 and have either K&Ns or trumpets instead of the plenum you really need the MU recalibrating

Edited August 20, 2007 by stephen cooper

[davehop]

The main issue with the above is that fitting the K&Ns direct to the throttle bodies is shortening the inlet tract, which happens to be too short as standard anyway! Ram pipes bringing the k&ns right out to the inner wing would be much better bearing in mind the 95mm stroke. The standard system runs into restrictions at higher revs and is a tin box over the exhaust manifold anyway. So with some decent ducting the hot air isn't really a problem and not enough to cancel out the more free flowing setup imo.

 

(edit) if you fit a 6-3-1 and have either K&Ns or trumpets instead of the plenum you really need the MU recalibrating

 

 

Hi Stephen

 

Can you explain the science (layman's terms please!) of the inlet trumpets re the above comments? I've always wondered what they're about apart from looking cool, that is!

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[jstone]

Hi

Ref to the breather pipes they go to an oil catcher tank bolted onto the bulk head. Hot air is dealt with an air duct feed from the front of the car from the Rad cowling, where the standard air filter bin would have been. I had a larger new side panel made R D design who make a very good metal alternative rad cowls. A 4'' hole with a bit of heater trunking diverts cold air when you are travelling so that exhaust gases and heat from the radiator are helped to clear the air filter area.

sorry if pictures are not to clear

Cheers

Spiro

 

Hi , can I ask what is the little K & N filter thingy for that is in front of the 3 main filters ?

 

Thanks

 

Jeremy

[spiro]

Hi , can I ask what is the little K & N filter thingy for that is in front of the 3 main filters ?

 

Thanks

 

Jeremy

Hi Jeremy

If you are referring to my pictures, there is small K&N filter on the fast idle screw which would normally have a pipe into the air box on the throttle body.

Cheers

Spiro

[jstone]

Hi Jeremy

If you are referring to my pictures, there is small K&N filter on the fast idle screw which would normally have a pipe into the air box on the throttle body.

Cheers

Spiro

 

Thanks Spiro, yes that is the one I was referring too. Maybe a dumb question but what benifits does the small K & N bring ? is this particular to a TR6 with the 3 filters or would any TR6 benefit from a small K & N on the fast idle screw ?

 

Many Thanks

 

Jeremy

[salmon]

The main issue with the above is that fitting the K&Ns direct to the throttle bodies is shortening the inlet tract, which happens to be too short as standard anyway! Ram pipes bringing the k&ns right out to the inner wing would be much better bearing in mind the 95mm stroke. The standard system runs into restrictions at higher revs and is a tin box over the exhaust manifold anyway. So with some decent ducting the hot air isn't really a problem and not enough to cancel out the more free flowing setup imo.

 

(edit) if you fit a 6-3-1 and have either K&Ns or trumpets instead of the plenum you really need the MU recalibrating

 

Those trumpet thingys look well cool, although are they not likely to knacker the engine by letting **** through?

[stephen cooper]

Those trumpet thingys look well cool, although are they not likely to knacker the engine by letting **** through?

 

No, that is what the pipercross socks are for (see second photo) in reply to Dave, the PI inlet tract is inherently too short as standard. This was probably due to the lack of space in the engine bay. Ram pipes are useful for increasing the speed of air flow into an engine. The length of the inlet tract also determines how power is delivered as a rule the longer the tract/ram pipe will move power lower down the rev range, the shorter your inlet tract the response will be more "snappy" and power will be made further up the rev range.

 

Take into account the 2.5 engine is not much of a revver, I have not calculated the ideal inlet tract for a road going 6 engine myself but listening to advice from people much more knowledgeable than myself It seems beneficial to run the longest inlet tract you can given the space constrictions. Steve

Edited August 20, 2007 by stephen cooper

[davehop]

Thanks Steve - most enlightening.

 

Might this be one of the reasons that triple webers are said to work so well - the mounting manifold + carbs increasing the overall length of the inlet?

[spiro]

Thanks Spiro, yes that is the one I was referring too. Maybe a dumb question but what benifits does the small K & N bring ? is this particular to a TR6 with the 3 filters or would any TR6 benefit from a small K & N on the fast idle screw ?

 

Many Thanks

 

Jeremy

just filters the air and stops any **** getting stuck in there, that's all

Spiro

[stephen cooper]

Thanks Steve - most enlightening.

 

Might this be one of the reasons that triple webers are said to work so well - the mounting manifold + carbs increasing the overall length of the inlet?

 

Quite possibly, I can tell you on a CP engine a good 6-3-1 the right MU and trumpets can work really well. The PI system has some advantages over webers ie. not being a choked down system and also being high pressure. I received Gareth Thomas' tuning manual today it's a very good reference for this topic.

[davehop]

Be very interested to hear of your results with the tuning manual.

 

Dave

[Roger H]

I have this an an alternative setup to the standard airbox. It is not great in traffic as the underbonnet temp thins the air and results in a rich mix. It's great flat strap though - noticeably better response at higher revs. I have not had it dyno'd as there is not enough air exchange when stationary. Interestingly, the exhaust note is different with these on.

 

This photo was taken early on - I have since fitted an oil catch tank instead of feeding the rocker cover vent back into the fuel/air stream.

[stuart]

Quite possibly, I can tell you on a CP engine a good 6-3-1 the right MU and trumpets can work really well. The PI system has some advantages over webers ie. not being a choked down system and also being high pressure. I received Gareth Thomas' tuning manual today it's a very good reference for this topic.

Stephen Where did you manage to find the Gareth Thomas tuning manual? as it sounds a usefull book to have for reference.

Stuart.

[Stevie P]

I have this an an alternative setup to the standard airbox. It is not great in traffic as the underbonnet temp thins the air and results in a rich mix. It's great flat strap though - noticeably better response at higher revs. I have not had it dyno'd as there is not enough air exchange when stationary. Interestingly, the exhaust note is different with these on.

 

This photo was taken early on - I have since fitted an oil catch tank instead of feeding the rocker cover vent back into the fuel/air stream.

 

 

Hi Roger

 

Are there 'extension' tubes fitted to move the filters further away from the engine?

 

What Linkage are you using?

 

Thanks,

 

Steve

[Roger H]

Steve

 

The tubes are simply bits of exhaust tubing which are co-incidentally exactly the same internal and external diameter as the rings which sit inside the manifold bodies (which the standard curved rubber connectors are pushed over). Rather than remove the rings and insert the 'ram pipes'(!) directly into the bodies, I had some stainless steel tube which was a tight fit over the two - so I used them as external 'rings' across the joints.

I wanted the pipes as long as possible and clearance to the wheel arch determined this.

 

It started off as a bit of an experiment and I was pleased enough with it to buy 3x K&N's to take the investment from $6 dollars to well over $200!!!!

 

I would have run them without filters if I was sure the sand traps at the local track were never going to be in play, but I am not that confident!

 

The tubes are not flared at the ends so they are not of optimum design. Correctly shaped ram pipes have a trumpet-like flare at the end and if you were serious about it you would get a set. It would probably make a small difference using them over the straight tubes, but I could not justify the cost. In addition, you cannot fit the standard K&N's over the trumpets and I am not aware of any K&N that can do the job without modification. I considered cutting the tops out of my filters but it all got a bit too hard. FWIW, several dynos over a few years have shown 125rwhp with the stock inlet manifold plenum and I feel as though it's a bit better with the ram tubes - I am happy with that

 

The oiled 'socks' over the ram tubes is the way I would go if you wanted to use the trumpets shaped tubes.

 

The rocker breather is now connected to an oil catch tank which sits in place of the washer water bottle. Oil returns to the sump via a drain brazed into the mechanical pump blanking plate behind the metering unit.

 

 

The linkage is from Revingtons. I got it 13 years ago and I don't know if the design has changed. I am generally pleased with it but dissapointed initially as the main support brackets were too flimsy and flexed too much. This resulted in less feel in the accelerator pedal and affected synchonisation of the butterflies but inly very slightly. I made better brackets and am happy with the results. Adjustment is a piece of cake. I did not connect the choke to the linkage, only to the metering unit, although there is provision on the linkage for it.

 

Hope this helps

 

Roger