angelfj Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Does anyone have the Lucas part number for the correct (screw terminals) voltage regulator for a pre-TS60000 TR-3A? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 (edited) On page 65 of my Moss Europe (UK) catalogue, the part number listed for TR2 to pre TS 60000 TR3A is "3H1835 - screw type connections". If your old one still works, get an old one from someones scrap bin where the cover is newer than your old one. Use the one that works with a new cover. A new control box does not guarantee that it will work better than the old one you have now - if it works at all. I bought a new one to carry as a spare from a TR supplier in your home state about 4 years ago. I carried it as a spare and last year, I thought I should try it out, just to make sure that it works. Guess what ? It didn't. All the resistances for the coils etc, from each screw terminal to the next ones on the new box were different than the one that worked. So I put back in the original control box that came with the car 50 years ago this February. Edited February 21, 2008 by Don Elliott Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 It was interesting to meet you at the spares day at Stoneleigh. I have a lot of experience of the control box and have posted a lot on this site. I also have a large collection of useless units. If you are buying a new control box you must be very careful with the one with a silver label saying clean the points before use. These are not adjusted correctly and when tuned go off tune very quickly. My best answer is a 36 year old control box from a Morris Minor which I bought from e bay for less than £3.00. I had an unused Lucas B90 which worked really well until I cleaned the points and then it failed completely. I had to get home and travelled 12 miles with the red light shining. This cooked the dynamo and the battery was replaced at the same time. I have the original Lucas apprentice's instruction sheets and adjustment is still very tricky.If you have a box that works do not remove the cover. Lucas reckoned that they made £5.00 every time someone opened the control unit. That was in the days when they had service depots and equipment and technicians who knew what to do. My Citroen has a low fuel beeping indicator which sounds at all times of the day regardless of fuel level.It is now on the 3rd trip to the garage under guarantee and they can not find any cause. My Tom Tom has also crashed for the third time. I suppose thatthese things are all part of survival. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
angelfj Posted February 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 It was interesting to meet you at the spares day at Stoneleigh. I have a lot of experience of the control box and have posted a lot on this site. I also have a large collection of useless units. If you are buying a new control box you must be very careful with the one with a silver label saying clean the points before use. These are not adjusted correctly and when tuned go off tune very quickly. My best answer is a 36 year old control box from a Morris Minor which I bought from e bay for less than £3.00. I had an unused Lucas B90 which worked really well until I cleaned the points and then it failed completely. I had to get home and travelled 12 miles with the red light shining. This cooked the dynamo and the battery was replaced at the same time. I have the original Lucas apprentice's instruction sheets and adjustment is still very tricky.If you have a box that works do not remove the cover. Lucas reckoned that they made £5.00 every time someone opened the control unit. That was in the days when they had service depots and equipment and technicians who knew what to do.My Citroen has a low fuel beeping indicator which sounds at all times of the day regardless of fuel level.It is now on the 3rd trip to the garage under guarantee and they can not find any cause. My Tom Tom has also crashed for the third time. I suppose thatthese things are all part of survival. Richard: Likewise and thank you for the valuable advice. I guess I was a bit surprised to hear that your unit failed after you cleaned the contacts. Very early in my career as an electrical engineer, I apprenticed as a relay tester. This was in a 1920's vintage GE plant in Philadelphia. The relays we produced were intended to protect large power systems during short-circuit and other abnormal conditions. They were all electromechanical - long before solid state and digital electronics. Quite often it was necessary to adjust contacts and not often, but at times we had burnish the silver contacts because of a build up of silver sulphide. We used an eraser ( in England you call these a rubber) , but not the common ones made from rubber. We used a special one made of glass fibers. Under magnification, the end of this "eraser" looked like the bristles of a paint brush bound up in a metal ferule. The bristles provided enough abrasion to remove any dirt or oxide, but were gentle enough NOT to remove any metal. You must be careful when cleaning contacts, so that you do not remove any metal or produce an un-even surface. If you do, the contacts will erode very quickly because all of the current will try to flow through a very small cross section of metal. Sorry for the epistle! Cheers, Frank Quote Link to post Share on other sites
angelfj Posted February 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 On page 65 of my Moss Europe (UK) catalogue, the part number listed for TR2 to pre TS 60000 TR3A is "3H1835 - screw type connections". If your old one still works, get an old one from someones scrap bin where the cover is newer than your old one. Use the one that works with a new cover. A new control box does not guarantee that it will work better than the old one you have now - if it works at all. I bought a new one to carry as a spare from a TR supplier in your home state about 4 years ago. I carried it as a spare and last year, I thought I should try it out, just to make sure that it works. Guess what ? It didn't. All the resistances for the coils etc, from each screw terminal to the next ones on the new box were different than the one that worked. So I put back in the original control box that came with the car 50 years ago this February. Don: I was hoping that you would reply. Thanks. This is another great photo and notes that go into the directory named "Don-Elliott-Gems" Cheers, Frank Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brydon Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Hi Frank The original lucas model number was: RB106-2 The original Lucas part number was 37182A/E Hope these numbers help. Kind regards Andrew Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 While I was a student studying mechanical engineering, I too worked in a relay shop during two summer breaks. These were the relay switches used in the telephone industry. There were 10 in each rack. We cleaned the contacts with a very thin file about 0.010" thick that had a rough silvered surface. You don't want to clean contacts with sandpaper or you risk leaving a grain or two of sand in the contact surface and this does not conduct electricity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 It is very interesting to hear from people who know more about this than I do. I started cleaning my B90 unit with methylated spirit and when that failed I followed the Lucas instructions. I purchased a pumice stone from the chemists and some very fine wet and dry paper, and it made the performance even worse. My very old control box is now working well and I have spares in the boot and in the garage. Thank you for the discussion on points cleaning. Yours , Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Menno van Rij Posted February 23, 2008 Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 Knowing that purists will not approve, here's something to consider: it is possible to build the internal parts of a modern alternator into the old-school dynamo housing. Thus combining two things: modern technology with old style looks: the control box can be maintained, but is obsolete. The wide fan belt can be maintained! All looks totally original. They are very expensive, but a troublesome control box will not add to motoring joy, I think! My Saabs have control boxes too. Bosch-made. Virtually unbrakeable. Saab shares this electrical outlay with older Volvos. But, even for these cars (1970s!), there are no new control boxes anymore. More and more owners of Saab and Volvo change to more modern alternators, leaving the box in place. Thus maintaining the original looks. I think that good quality voltage regulators for TRs are hard to find, or there must be somebody like Martin Jay (who ended the distributor's rotor nightmare). That person mudt be able to build good quality control boxes. Until that time, more and more of us will have to suffer the problem of rubbish quality control boxes: the original boxes are wearing out, new ones are not good. And what's worse: for most people (including myself), control boxes are something you do not want to touch. When a problem appears, it's too late for most of us to react properly: the new ones has been in the tool box too long. The seller will not accept any complaints anymore. Regards, Menno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted February 27, 2008 Report Share Posted February 27, 2008 Things have got worse. I have just bought two 1960's control boxes for £3.70 on e bay. This is becoming an obsession. Maybe some summer motoring will bring on a cure, that is if I can stop nervously watching the dashboard. Any advice welcome. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Richard - I once met a chap who lives in Wiltshire and he was collecting the chromed handbrake lever arms that burn your left leg if you drive in UK, Aussie or New Zealand. He was sure that once he had so many, he could command a decent price if someone wanted one. The story turns out that since there was such a shortage that someone started to make reproductions at a very competitive price and he never sold any of them from his stored up stock. If you have a number of control boxes that you can say for sure that they work (and will work), you can command a nice fee should you decide to put them up for sale. I know I'd buy one. BTW, I have about 6 cromed hand brake lever arms if anyone wants to buy one from me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Hi Don, That's a true story, in case anyone is in doubt ! Jon probably still has the world's largest stock of handbrake levers !!! As for voltage regulators, they're a convincing argument for alternators . . . Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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