Non standard brake parts

[Richardtr3a]

Please help me if you can with some advice on a long standing brake problem. After I had a garage change my near side half shaft I had no hand brake. I did not find out for some 125 miles and since then I have been wrestling with the problem. Also the drum gets too hot to touch even after only a few miles without any braking at all.

 

I have dismantled the wheel cylinder and the mounting arrangement, and replaced with new parts.The brake cables are now so loose that I have no handbrake and the footbrake is loosened off so much, by the adjuster, that there is a very long pedal and a second press gives a much harder pedal. I plan to have my original half shaft overhauled and fitted back in the car.

 

So while I am working on the overhaul I have not used the car for 2 months. This sunday I went for a short drive and at first the suspect brake was seized on. It loosened after moving a few feet. The handbrake is never applied while parked in the garage.

I also noticed during an inspection in the summer that the new shoes on the new half shaft side have lining covering the entire face of the shoe and that on the good side the linings leave a part of the shoe exposed, as drawn in the workshop manual.

 

The question is " Are these non standard shoes, and can they be dragging against the drum even in this very loosely adjusted condition, and then binding up solid when left alone for a long period ?"

[BrianC]

I'd agree with Alec - never use unmatched brake parts.

 

However, to establish whether this is the cause of your strange affliction, why not swap the shoes from side-to-side and see if the problem transfers with them? And while you are at it, check the springs are correct and not jamming, preventing the shoes from releasing.

 

I seem to remember having to chamfer the leading-edge on some new shoes long, long ago!

Living in SW London, you shouldn't have too much trouble getting the set of shoes relined at less than the cost of replacements, but make sure both pairs of shoes are the same pattern and correct for the car - someone may have fitted the wrong shoes to both sides.

 

Still, it seems odd that the problem has only appeared following the half-shaft replacement.

Edited November 7, 2006 by BrianC

[stuart]

Talk to Lukas at TR Shop 02089956621 they are currently offering a complete rear brake overhaul kit for £75 including shoes and all hardware.

Stuart.

[marvmul]

I remember well your former post about this problem and I was convinced that the garage assembled the parts in a wrong way and that you simply didn't see it, like a printers error : you don't see the error and one's you found it you cannot not see it.

When you try the shoe's in the drum before fitting, they should touch the drum evenly , or a little bit more in the middle of the arc of the shoe's.

The handbrake didn't work when returning from the garage : maybe the small spindel (about 1/6"long on both sides of the lever, behind an extension of the wheel cylinders) )in the handbrake

levers (the small levers in the back plates at the wheels) isn't fitted in the recess of the wheel cylinders : you cannot see this spindel without removing the cylinder from the backplate. Maybe in the garage, they have ground away these spindles ?

[jean]

Could it be that someone forgot to put the, or one, of the wedges in the adjuster assembly, if you try to adjust the brakes you will lock up one side and still have little brakes.

Remove the drums and check if every item is present including the shoe retaining pins and that the shoes are fitted the right way, might compare it with the opposite side. A rule is to never fit new shoes without having them compared with the old ones, sorry that it's too late now. Also check if the shoes are note touching the brakes sideways, but this could be heard by a scratching noise

jean

[BrianC]

I remember well your former post about this problem and I was convinced that the garage assembled the parts in a wrong way and that you simply didn't see it, like a printers error : you don't see the error and one's you found it you cannot not see it.

That's a very good point. I think Richard needs a fresh pair of eyes, preferably a fellow TR enthusiast from the local group, but these brakes are so basic that anyone familiar with drum-brakes should spot any obvious errors.

[jean]

Yes, therefore I was told to always compare the new part with the old one before fitting or compare the item or setup with the layout in the manual

You only see it when you know what you are looking for.......

Jean

[Richardtr3a]

I have checked out all fittings very carefully and I have found that the words in the workshop manual do not corespond with the pictures when we are looking at the correct procedure for attaching the wheel cylinder.I may be reading this incorrectly,but the fitting of the distance piece and locking plate should be according to the drawing and not the text. Nontheless my cylinder works well and is free to move on the backplate

 

I feel that the garage fitters have fitted some non standard parts and altered the brake cables to allow some free movement. This explains the loss of handbrake. If the shoes were in contact with the drum this would explain the heat and the binding up when parked up for weeks without being used.I only ordered a new shaft and there was no need to touch the brakes at all.If the brake shoes were too fat this would explain all the symptoms. They are definitely not a match with the good side.

 

I think that I will try some new shoes on both sides. The garage was a well known specialist and they really know all about the cars. Maybe I was allocated a junior fitter. The new half shaft has no holes for the two small drum locating screws, only a small dimple.

 

lets hope for a warm week-end

 

Richard

 

I'd agree with Alec - never use unmatched brake parts.

 

However, to establish whether this is the cause of your strange affliction, why not swap the shoes from side-to-side and see if the problem transfers with them? And while you are at it, check the springs are correct and not jamming, preventing the shoes from releasing.

 

I seem to remember having to chamfer the leading-edge on some new shoes long, long ago!

Living in SW London, you shouldn't have too much trouble getting the set of shoes relined at less than the cost of replacements, but make sure both pairs of shoes are the same pattern and correct for the car - someone may have fitted the wrong shoes to both sides.

 

Still, it seems odd that the problem has only appeared following the half-shaft replacement.

I am in full agreement and only discovered the shoe problem after stripping down the work carried out by the garage. Richard

[rudi]

should a "well known specialist" not rectify his error as a matter of warranty or customer service? Did you check with them?

Good luck, Rudi

[Kiwifrog]

I agre with Rudi and Alec, if the specialist made an error on your car then it is up to them to fix it. I imagine when you bring it to their notice they will not only be very embarrased but will also bend over backwards to fix it, or at least they should

 

Alan

[Richardtr3a]

This is entirely correct of course, but I have found that if I approach a problem from a position of knowledge, I generally have a much better result.

 

I am planning a return visit on Saturday morning, after 18 months and expect an informed discussion with a promise of new linings at no cost. The original bill was over £500.00

 

I will post a result even just to satisfy myself.

 

Thanks for your interest.

 

Richard

[jean]

Richard, very sorry for you, but these things happen more often. As an amateur I always check and re-check

what I'm doing. Well established garages don't do this, mostly they have no time to do it if they want to earn a buck It's very sad, but here on the continent I have often seen on TR's that metric bolts or nuts were fitted to their imperial sized counterpart, and this was done by well established professionals

Hope you can get your problem sorted out soon

Jean