stuart Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 4 minutes ago, TR4Tony VC said: I suggested also filling the gap between the screen cap seal and the rubber channel with black tigaseal. The other thing I’ve done is use a pair of small wind wings at the top of the screen surround on the TR4 (alloy roof). There is always a small gap and I was forever getting a wet right knee when I had my 4a … steel roof panel. TBH I think its a combination of problems these days. 1. The front seal isnt quite the correct shape right at the ends and is often supplied in a poor sort of sponge rubber and also its not wide enough. 2. Most if not all cars dont have the channels and the two part seal/furflex fitting round the door aperture and up the screen frame that they were supplied with when new. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4Tony VC Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 On 2/14/2024 at 4:16 PM, stuart said: TBH I think its a combination of problems these days. 1. The front seal isnt quite the correct shape right at the ends and is often supplied in a poor sort of sponge rubber and also its not wide enough. 2. Most if not all cars dont have the channels and the two part seal/furflex fitting round the door aperture and up the screen frame that they were supplied with when new. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4Tony VC Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 This is my alloy lid as stripped by hand today ! You can see the front of the lid and where the seal channel continues to diverge from the edge of the roof - if this is peculiar to the early alloy lids then maybe the early screen cap seal was different ? in any event, my experience is that in a car with an alloy roof my right knee does not get wet when it rains … in a car with a steel roof it does ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 (edited) 17 minutes ago, TR4Tony VC said: This is my alloy lid as stripped by hand today ! You can see the front of the lid and where the seal channel continues to diverge from the edge of the roof - if this is peculiar to the early alloy lids then maybe the early screen cap seal was different ? in any event, my experience is that in a car with an alloy roof my right knee does not get wet when it rains … in a car with a steel roof it does ! That channel is fitted the same way as the steel one at the front. I would say an ally roof is possibly shaped better at the front to align with the screen or theres more give in it when its bolted down to compress the seal. Ive seen a few steel ones where you can tell by a side on view at the top of the "A" post that the end of the main front seal isnt compressed enough.Look at this red one compared to how mine sits (mine doesn’t leak) Stuart, Edited February 17 by stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4Tony VC Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 Yes more overhang for sure - maybe the front piece is slightly longer on the alloy pressings than the steel ? So it sticks out further and therefore squeezes the seal down better ? having stripped this one by hand they look ‘hand assembled’ as the edges are roughly cut in some places. I can imagine that all the bits were pressed on tooling, but given that they’d weren’t actually that many alloy Surrey tops made, perhaps this hand assembly cost was why production turned to steel later on. Anyone know ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4Tony VC Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 1 hour ago, stuart said: That channel is fitted the same way as the steel one at the front. I would say an ally roof is possibly shaped better at the front to align with the screen or theres more give in it when its bolted down to compress the seal. Ive seen a few steel ones where you can tell by a side on view at the top of the "A" post that the end of the main front seal isnt compressed enough.Look at this red one compared to how mine sits (mine doesn’t leak) Stuart, Did you replace the front captive nuts on yours ? I remember one steel lid that I saw where the owner had and this had the effect of moving the roof back on one side and forward on the other - he wondered why one of the rear bolts was 3/8 inches off the hole and it turned out that the captive cage wasn’t in exactly the right place … Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 18 Report Share Posted February 18 19 hours ago, TR4Tony VC said: Yes more overhang for sure - maybe the front piece is slightly longer on the alloy pressings than the steel ? So it sticks out further and therefore squeezes the seal down better ? having stripped this one by hand they look ‘hand assembled’ as the edges are roughly cut in some places. I can imagine that all the bits were pressed on tooling, but given that they’d weren’t actually that many alloy Surrey tops made, perhaps this hand assembly cost was why production turned to steel later on. Anyone know ? I would say the alloy roofs were hand assembled as they are as you say a bit roughly put together, once the popularity of the roofs took off I suspect thats why they turned to mass producing in steel. Even those were still seemingly thrown together especially with the lack of any semblance of sealant between the pressings hence why theyre all rusty (Ive replaced a whole front 4" on one and several inches of all four corners on another and so on) Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 18 Report Share Posted February 18 19 hours ago, TR4Tony VC said: Did you replace the front captive nuts on yours ? I remember one steel lid that I saw where the owner had and this had the effect of moving the roof back on one side and forward on the other - he wondered why one of the rear bolts was 3/8 inches off the hole and it turned out that the captive cage wasn’t in exactly the right place … My blue one was completely original hence why it all lines up perfectly, I have had to spot weld one complete captive plate back on to the front of one as it had dropped off but it was possible to see where the original spots were located so it was replaced in the same location, interestingly they dont always seem to be located in exactly the centre of the hole in the under panel. I do know of one alloy roof that has one of the rear captives pulled out along with a couple of square inches of the surrounding alloy, good luck to whoever has to repair that. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Garvey Posted February 18 Author Report Share Posted February 18 On 2/14/2024 at 1:36 PM, stuart said: All he steel ones Ive seen have straight channels though whether any may have had them replaced previously I know not, never been able to afford an ally one. It seems to provide a better seal too as you can butt the side seal up to the front one. Also just checked my Surrey roof (Steel one from a 5 originally) and as its only ever had a colour change I know its original and the channels are straight. Stuart. Good afternoon. I ventured to remove the felt and rubber seals on my Surrey top today and was expecting more issues but I was pleasantly surprised. There are the metal channels on both sides. The previous owner/or who rebuilt the car has used the wrong items as you said earlier. One thing that I now need is a foam sponge PART NUMBER MOSS 806144. A friend brought both the hard rubber and the foam sponge one today. The roof sealed much better with the foam sponge. Does anyone know where I can get the a foam sponge 806144. My friend bought his foam sponge one at a show a while back but can't remember who sold it. Fingers crossed Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4Tony VC Posted February 18 Report Share Posted February 18 5 hours ago, stuart said: My blue one was completely original hence why it all lines up perfectly, I have had to spot weld one complete captive plate back on to the front of one as it had dropped off but it was possible to see where the original spots were located so it was replaced in the same location, interestingly they dont always seem to be located in exactly the centre of the hole in the under panel. I do know of one alloy roof that has one of the rear captives pulled out along with a couple of square inches of the surrounding alloy, good luck to whoever has to repair that. Stuart. Yep that was me ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 On 2/17/2024 at 3:23 PM, TR4Tony VC said: THREAD DRIFT - sort of I'd like a source for that rolled aluminium 'C' channel to hold the seal. I used to get it from MG parts suppliers, and currently can only find it in steel. I use it to hold the seal to the bottom of aftermarket aeroscreens. I suspect the maker of the steel one would do it in aluminium but I am not sure I want 1000 metres of the stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 3 hours ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said: THREAD DRIFT - sort of I'd like a source for that rolled aluminium 'C' channel to hold the seal. I used to get it from MG parts suppliers, and currently can only find it in steel. I use it to hold the seal to the bottom of aftermarket aeroscreens. I suspect the maker of the steel one would do it in aluminium but I am not sure I want 1000 metres of the stuff. Sorry Pete that "C" section was in steel on the Ally roofs too. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 22 hours ago, Paul Garvey said: Good afternoon. I ventured to remove the felt and rubber seals on my Surrey top today and was expecting more issues but I was pleasantly surprised. There are the metal channels on both sides. The previous owner/or who rebuilt the car has used the wrong items as you said earlier. One thing that I now need is a foam sponge PART NUMBER MOSS 806144. A friend brought both the hard rubber and the foam sponge one today. The roof sealed much better with the foam sponge. Does anyone know where I can get the a foam sponge 806144. My friend bought his foam sponge one at a show a while back but can't remember who sold it. Fingers crossed Paul Paul it seems Revingtons have it in stock currently though they are charging huge amounts for postage at the moment I believe https://www.revingtontr.com/product/806144/name/seal-hard-top-front-tr4-6 Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 1 hour ago, stuart said: Sorry Pete that "C" section was in steel on the Ally roofs too. Stuart. The steel section will probably be 750163 the channel used around the door on the door posts and sill. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 37 minutes ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said: The steel section will probably be 750163 the channel used around the door on the door posts and sill. Yes same one, also as used on Series 1 XJ6 door seals. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
qkingston Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 This thread has been useful as I build up my Honeybourne top; I had a headline covered GRP insert which I acquired years ago which fitted perfectly ( I think it was a Moss product made by Honeybourne) and used all the original type seals from Moss, not perfect but ok. One issue is the rear flange which is 7.5mm thick and too wide for the Mini sill trim...still looking for alternatives. The inner draft excluder (Moss 611599M) was not wide enough to go over the GRP edge + the headling GRP insert, so I found this wider alternative (Large Black Rubber Car Edge Trim Seal 4.5mm-6mm - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225203828608) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
qkingston Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 (edited) And with the top on the body. After much shoogling the bolts were secured and tightened, I was being careful as this is GRP and I didn't want to overdo it. Trying to get the side windows adjusted is fun; having tried every trick I can find (adjusting the stop bracket/ bending(straightening) the regulator upper arm and lifting the regulator mechanism in the bolt holes as far as it would go) I have gained around 12mm in window height and its ok at the back but still a bit short at the front. I notice that the Honeybourne top (or maybe its the front edge rubber seal - a TRF product) is sitting a little higher than original hard tops I have seen and it also protrudes over the windscreen top a bit more than an original, anyway the result is a tiny gap at the front top corner of the window/roof; I'm at a loss as to what else I can do, any good ideas welcome (preferably not dismantling everything :)) PS the other side is just about the same Many thanks David Edited February 21 by qkingston Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 It does look as if the front of your roof goes straight across and doesn’t curve down across to the ends. Stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
qkingston Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 Thanks Stuart....anyone else fitted a Honeybourne GRP top and found this issue (and any clever solution?) David Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Garvey Posted February 23 Author Report Share Posted February 23 I'm on holiday now until April so I will probably be asking more questions when I get back and start the final stages of dealing my steel top. But this thread has been excellent for me as TR's are relatively new to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Garvey Posted April 16 Author Report Share Posted April 16 Hi I'm back my winter break. I'm not sure how to butt up part 806144 and 650312. Also the site will not let add more than 2 photos so I will send one separately. Does the door window push them together? Also on part number do you use glue or double sided tape? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Garvey Posted April 16 Author Report Share Posted April 16 Third Photo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted April 16 Report Share Posted April 16 The main front rubber should be glued on. I always use this glue https://www.woolies-trim.co.uk/p-1263-heat-resistant-adhesive I would glue the front seal on and then stretch that raised block so it met with the side rubber and glue it to the end of it.Tthe front one is fairly spongy so that bit should stretch if not find a small block of Sorbo rubber and carve it to the same shape and add it to the side to take up the gap. It prevents water and draughts from that front corner. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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