Paul Garvey Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 Hi The previous owner used the foam tubing (all along the length of the Surrey top) an example of the width as seen in the photos,this did stop any water getting in in the front corner but pushed the door glass outwards leaving a big gap where the glass in the door meets the Surrey top on the side not the roof so water could get in there. I temporarily used a length of U shaped rubber but I want do a better job Can anyone advise which profile of a foam seal they used on the front corners. The photo shows daylight which I wish to make watertight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tr graham Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 Paul looks like you have the wrong seal on the underside of the surrrey top , it finishes further out with a triangular looking end . graham Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Fremont Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 Hi Paul, I don't see the window seal fitted to the top; its profile enables it to be glued to the turned down edge of the front seal if desired and is the same seal used on the front edges of the backlight and TR4/4A door seals I believe. This should fill the gap shown. There are also (2) seal profiles for the windscreen rear edge, placed against the FurFlex seal for the doors used on TR5/250/6. Your photo shows the larger of the two. It is not to be fitted under the front of the lid. The gap between the capping and front lip of the lid should be minimized; it can practically disappear if the seal is positioned a little behind the leading edge. Your front seal doesn't extend as far as mine do; some of them must be stretched to go the distance ( good luck with that! ) while others cooperate nicely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 Some of the front roof seals are a bit on the short side and don’t reach out far enough like yours, it should reach right out to the end and meet up as stated with the side seals, sometimes the door seal can be trimmed around the capping where it meets at the edge to also help fill the gap Stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Garvey Posted February 8 Author Report Share Posted February 8 5 hours ago, tr graham said: Paul looks like you have the wrong seal on the underside of the surrrey top , it finishes further out with a triangular looking end . graham Thanks I'll have a look round at Stoneleigh on Sunday Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Garvey Posted February 8 Author Report Share Posted February 8 4 hours ago, Tom Fremont said: Hi Paul, I don't see the window seal fitted to the top; its profile enables it to be glued to the turned down edge of the front seal if desired and is the same seal used on the front edges of the backlight and TR4/4A door seals I believe. This should fill the gap shown. There are also (2) seal profiles for the windscreen rear edge, placed against the FurFlex seal for the doors used on TR5/250/6. Your photo shows the larger of the two. It is not to be fitted under the front of the lid. The gap between the capping and front lip of the lid should be minimized; it can practically disappear if the seal is positioned a little behind the leading edge. Your front seal doesn't extend as far as mine do; some of them must be stretched to go the distance ( good luck with that! ) while others cooperate nicely. Thank you for your help. I'll have a look at other LVG group members who have a Surrey top Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Garvey Posted February 8 Author Report Share Posted February 8 2 hours ago, stuart said: Some of the front roof seals are a bit on the short side and don’t reach out far enough like yours, it should reach right out to the end and meet up as stated with the side seals, sometimes the door seal can be trimmed around the capping where it meets at the edge to also help fill the gap Stuart Thank you Stuart. I am going to Stoneleigh with 2 others who have Surrey tops so I'll ask them which deals I require. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Garvey Posted February 9 Author Report Share Posted February 9 21 hours ago, stuart said: Some of the front roof seals are a bit on the short side and don’t reach out far enough like yours, it should reach right out to the end and meet up as stated with the side seals, sometimes the door seal can be trimmed around the capping where it meets at the edge to also help fill the gap Stuart Hi Stuart I forgot to ask. Is the rubber seal too "curved" on my 4a? Is there an easy fix? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Paul Garvey said: Hi Stuart I forgot to ask. Is the rubber seal too "curved" on my 4a? Is there an easy fix? No its just not long enough plus you dont have the side seal channels to meet up with it by the looks of it.You also seem to have a combination furflex/rubber seal around the lip thats not going anywhere near sealing the roof to side windows. Stuart. Edited February 9 by stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Garvey Posted February 10 Author Report Share Posted February 10 19 hours ago, stuart said: No its just not long enough plus you dont have the side seal channels to meet up with it by the looks of it.You also seem to have a combination furflex/rubber seal around the lip thats not going anywhere near sealing the roof to side windows. Stuart. Hi Stuart Are the side seals part number 650312 at Moss? Looks like it will be plan B. I'll buy a sheet of black sponge neoprene ( I think dense neoprene won't have enough give) at Stoneleigh. I'll try 10mm and 12mm, first make a card board template and form the neoprene to fit the "triangular" gap. I can put double sided tape on 2 sides. Fingers crossed Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 3 hours ago, Paul Garvey said: Hi Stuart Are the side seals part number 650312 at Moss? Looks like it will be plan B. I'll buy a sheet of black sponge neoprene ( I think dense neoprene won't have enough give) at Stoneleigh. I'll try 10mm and 12mm, first make a card board template and form the neoprene to fit the "triangular" gap. I can put double sided tape on 2 sides. Fingers crossed Paul Side seals are as quoted 650312 see picture, but unless you have the corresponding channels that they fit into then you wont be able to fit them and it does look as if they are missing from your roof.you can just see them in this picture of the underside of an ally roof. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Garvey Posted February 12 Author Report Share Posted February 12 On 2/10/2024 at 1:29 PM, stuart said: Side seals are as quoted 650312 see picture, but unless you have the corresponding channels that they fit into then you wont be able to fit them and it does look as if they are missing from your roof.you can just see them in this picture of the underside of an ally roof. Stuart. Hi Plan C I was introduced to Tony Sheach at Stoneleigh, he sends his regards, who had a used surrey top he had sold shown in the pictures. I now understand what you had said earlier having seen another Surrey top close up. I previously wasn't aware that my Surrey top did not have the channel pop riveted on. He advised that Moss sold the part but to get the one that is sold to fit the sill panel as it is longer. I bought parts 611599M & 650312 but no one on the Moss stand understood what I wanted as it was not in their brochure, whereas Tony had bought it approx. a year ago? So I thought I was stumped on that one however Rimmers knew exactly what I wanted part 75013 that are 0.6 metre long, I bought 2 but I think I need 3? Onwards and upwards. Once again thank you very much for your patience and guidance on this topic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 8 minutes ago, Paul Garvey said: Hi Plan C I was introduced to Tony Sheach at Stoneleigh, he sends his regards, who had a used surrey top he had sold shown in the pictures. I now understand what you had said earlier having seen another Surrey top close up. I previously wasn't aware that my Surrey top did not have the channel pop riveted on. He advised that Moss sold the part but to get the one that is sold to fit the sill panel as it is longer. I bought parts 611599M & 650312 but no one on the Moss stand understood what I wanted as it was not in their brochure, whereas Tony had bought it approx. a year ago? So I thought I was stumped on that one however Rimmers knew exactly what I wanted part 75013 that are 0.6 metre long, I bought 2 but I think I need 3? Onwards and upwards. Once again thank you very much for your patience and guidance on this topic Those channels are only riveted on if its an ally roof, on steel roofs they are spot welded on though you will probably have to rivet them on yours. That 75013 part number doesnt come up on Rimmers. But 0.6mtr should be enough each side. Dont forget you need similar channel and rubber up the sides of the rear frame too. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4Tony VC Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 Hi Both Just to add, they are a bugger to rivet on so I’ve started to use countersunk self tappers to hold them in place - the head of the rivet gun I have is fairly wide so won’t squeeze into the gap between the channel edges without bending it. You can open it up but that’s not quite as simple as it looks ! Short screws do work, just don’t use stainless A2 as they break and do put a line of tape under to stop the screw dipping into the paint as you screw it in … and make sure they are SHORT ! Otherwise you dent the roof … regards Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 2 hours ago, TR4Tony VC said: Hi Both Just to add, they are a bugger to rivet on so I’ve started to use countersunk self tappers to hold them in place - the head of the rivet gun I have is fairly wide so won’t squeeze into the gap between the channel edges without bending it. You can open it up but that’s not quite as simple as it looks ! Short screws do work, just don’t use stainless A2 as they break and do put a line of tape under to stop the screw dipping into the paint as you screw it in … and make sure they are SHORT ! Otherwise you dent the roof … regards Tony I have a rivet gun nose specially ground down for just this purpose, as screws are too hit and miss, also required when fitting new hoods to rivet the channel for the header rail rubber Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4Tony VC Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 21 hours ago, stuart said: I have a rivet gun nose specially ground down for just this purpose, as screws are too hit and miss, also required when fitting new hoods to rivet the channel for the header rail rubber Stuart. Good idea! I should have thought of that earlier ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tr graham Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 Guys Slide a small BA nut onto the pop rivet before placing into the gun does the trick keeps the nose clear of the channel and still plenty of shank for the gun to grip . graham Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 40 minutes ago, tr graham said: Guys Slide a small BA nut onto the pop rivet before placing into the gun does the trick keeps the nose clear of the channel and still plenty of shank for the gun to grip . graham Then spend the next half an hour looking for the nut when it disappears just as the rivet stem breaks Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Garvey Posted February 13 Author Report Share Posted February 13 On 2/12/2024 at 1:25 PM, stuart said: Those channels are only riveted on if its an ally roof, on steel roofs they are spot welded on though you will probably have to rivet them on yours. That 75013 part number doesn't come up on Rimmers. But 0.6mtr should be enough each side. Don't forget you need similar channel and rubber up the sides of the rear frame too. Stuart. Thank you for your reply, I got the part number wrong it is 750163. Moss do sell it, as does Rimmer but both do not show it clearly on the Hardtop page. A LVG member Howard who introduced me to Tony is coming round to my house at the next LVG meet as the pub where we meet at is in the village where I live so between us we can have a good look at the positioning and check with others if need be. My only concern is where on the picture from Tony's roof the channel turns out slightly which Tony said is important as it means the seal will meet the capping to be water tight. Do you know where I can get a scaled diagram or a video showing this? Once again I really appreciate all your help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Garvey Posted February 13 Author Report Share Posted February 13 On 2/12/2024 at 2:19 PM, TR4Tony VC said: Hi Both Just to add, they are a bugger to rivet on so I’ve started to use countersunk self tappers to hold them in place - the head of the rivet gun I have is fairly wide so won’t squeeze into the gap between the channel edges without bending it. You can open it up but that’s not quite as simple as it looks ! Short screws do work, just don’t use stainless A2 as they break and do put a line of tape under to stop the screw dipping into the paint as you screw it in … and make sure they are SHORT ! Otherwise you dent the roof … regards Tony Thank you for the tips Regards Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 18 hours ago, Paul Garvey said: Thank you for your reply, I got the part number wrong it is 750163. Moss do sell it, as does Rimmer but both do not show it clearly on the Hardtop page. A LVG member Howard who introduced me to Tony is coming round to my house at the next LVG meet as the pub where we meet at is in the village where I live so between us we can have a good look at the positioning and check with others if need be. My only concern is where on the picture from Tony's roof the channel turns out slightly which Tony said is important as it means the seal will meet the capping to be water tight. Do you know where I can get a scaled diagram or a video showing this? Once again I really appreciate all your help. No the channel is straight all the way along, it meets with the front seal at right angles. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Garvey Posted February 14 Author Report Share Posted February 14 11 minutes ago, stuart said: No the channel is straight all the way along, it meets with the front seal at right angles. Stuart. Thank you once again Stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4Tony VC Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 13 minutes ago, stuart said: No the channel is straight all the way along, it meets with the front seal at right angles. Stuart. Mine isn’t! On all four of them - all aluminium. Are the steel ones different Stuart ? Screen caps different at the end ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 Just now, TR4Tony VC said: Mine isn’t! On all four of them - all aluminium. Are the steel ones different Stuart ? Screen caps different at the end ? All he steel ones Ive seen have straight channels though whether any may have had them replaced previously I know not, never been able to afford an ally one. It seems to provide a better seal too as you can butt the side seal up to the front one. Also just checked my Surrey roof (Steel one from a 5 originally) and as its only ever had a colour change I know its original and the channels are straight. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4Tony VC Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 2 hours ago, stuart said: All he steel ones Ive seen have straight channels though whether any may have had them replaced previously I know not, never been able to afford an ally one. It seems to provide a better seal too as you can butt the side seal up to the front one. Also just checked my Surrey roof (Steel one from a 5 originally) and as its only ever had a colour change I know its original and the channels are straight. Stuart. I suggested also filling the gap between the screen cap seal and the rubber channel with black tigaseal. The other thing I’ve done is use a pair of small wind wings at the top of the screen surround on the TR4 (alloy roof). There is always a small gap and I was forever getting a wet right knee when I had my 4a … steel roof panel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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