saxchappy Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 I don't know if it's the done thing, but I'm having another go at asking for help with the problem below. Any suggestions (even if it involves bad news) would be much appreciated. Since writing the message below first time round I've double checked that the gear lever is in correctly (the spring loaded stop should face the erar of the vehicle shouldn't it?). Anyway - here it is again. Thanks in advance, and Merry Christmas!! 'After the excitement of starting up the rebuilt engine (2.0l) in my TR7 at the weekend I tried to drive the car up the drive. The gearbox is the original from the 1980 car whilst the engine was from an older vehicle (1977 I think). 'When I try to select any forward gear, the gear stick moves into position (and feels as if it is going into position as would be expected) but there is no drive when I bring the clutch pedal up. (It may be significant that with or without the engine running the gearstick jumps out of the reverse position). There are no crunching noises or anything to indicate rubbing/grinding etc. I did replace all the major clutch bits before joining the engine to the gearbox. 'Could anyone suggest the cause of this problem, please? 'Thanks, yet again, for your help in advance. Please be gentle if the news is really bad. 'cheers, 'Kevin' Quote Link to post Share on other sites
anthonyt Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 At the risk of sounding condescending the gear lever and an absence of noises are not in themselves a good indicator of whether the gearbox has been reinstalled properly. Assuming that the clutch/drive plate/throwout bearing etc is properly installed i would think that the spigot bearing in the end of the crankshaft might be your problem. If you found that the gearbox went in very easily that might be a good indicator. Dig your manual out and have a look and try to remember whether you fitted one or not, if the crankshaft has been away for machining it may have been removed. Good Luck. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stevew Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Is the gearlever fitted correctly with the 2 pins(one on eitherside of the gearlever)located under the spring loaded fork. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saxchappy Posted December 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Anthonyt - being condescending presumes I have somewhere to descend to! Don't worry - I am at the bottom of the evolutionary pile when it comes to all this business. It's very new to me and I have really enjoyed the learning process as well as doing what to others would be trivial things but for me with no practical training background (I chose music O level instead of metalwork) are major milestones. However, it might take the gloss off a bit if the engine has to come out again! Are you suggesting that a gearbox going in easily means a missing/faulty spigot bearing? Is it advisable to remove the gearbox without taking the engine out, if it comes to that? Stevew - yes, the pins are correctly located. If only it were that simple Thanks for your time guys - it's much appreciated. Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cinnobar Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 No SPigot bearing wouldn't give a complete lack of drive, it'll knacker the gearbox but won't stop it working. Does it feel like its going into gear? Has it ever worked (Wonder if diff knackered or halfshaft broke!) does the proshaft go round? Is their any resistance to the clutch pedal? I sspect you're going to have to drop the gearbox again and investigate it all, but answering the above might give us more to go on! Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saxchappy Posted December 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 First off, many apologies for the delay in replying - we're on steam powered internet at the moment after computer meltdown, and many thanks for your time so far. If I didn't know otherwise I would say the car was in gear when gears are 'selected'. The stick moves as positively as any TR7 stick I've used. I don't know whether the gearbox works. It came on the car with a knackered engine which I've replaced. I put a new clutch plate, cover and bearing on and changed the gearbox oil before replacing the engine and box. I can turn the propshaft by hand when the wheels are off the ground. There is resistanec to the clutch pedal. I hope this helps!! It looks like I may be getting the gearbox out. What are yuor thoughts out there on just dropping the box vs removing with engine? Sincere thanks again -and compliments of the season to you all :-) Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
malcolm Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 Sorry not to be able to help with the fault diagnosis Kevin. I can tell you that the gearbox can be fairly easily dropped leaving the engine in place though. I've done this on my drive. You need to get the car high enough to be able to drop and take away the 'box and bellhousing. Remove the gearbox mounting and bellhousing bolts and lower it with a couple of jacks. Do be careful though as it is heavy and after a bit of tugging will suddenly come free.... Malcolm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
anthonyt Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Take the gearbox out, it will be easier to diagnose after that, as malcolm says dont bother taking the engine out first, have someone on hand to help as it can be a handfull when you are lying under the car. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saxchappy Posted December 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Many thanks again, guys. I shall drop the box with the engine in situ. However, as I don't have the luxury of a warm garage (or even a cold one) I shall wait for the cold snap to end before attempting this. BTW, looking through the BL manual last night to check I'd done everything required to refit the engine/box, I came across the instructions for accessing/removing the gear change linkage. Is it possible that this may have something to do with the problem? I'll keep the forum posted once the box is out. In the meantime, have a peaceful New Year Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stevew Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Many thanks again, guys. I shall drop the box with the engine in situ. However, as I don't have the luxury of a warm garage (or even a cold one) I shall wait for the cold snap to end before attempting this. BTW, looking through the BL manual last night to check I'd done everything required to refit the engine/box, I came across the instructions for accessing/removing the gear change linkage. Is it possible that this may have something to do with the problem? I'll keep the forum posted once the box is out. In the meantime, have a peaceful New Year Kevin Have you removed the gearbox remote for any reason prior to fitting to the car? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saxchappy Posted December 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 Steve, I haven't done anything to the gearbox aside from remove it from the engine, change the oil and refit it. I've never had the car moving under its own steam so I can't comment on its integrity when I got the car. Bearing in mind the low level of my knowledge on matters mechanical, I would say that when 'engaging' gear it does feel as if the stick is doing all the right things but that the connection between it and the gearbox bits isn't there. Is it likely that the remote link has become detached or broken? Or might there be a reason why someone might disconnect it if it was attached to a seized engine (as this was)? The gearbox had certainly been removed before I got to it. BTW, if the problem is a broken/disconnected etc remote link, is it worth removing it whilst leaving the gearbox in place as per the BL manual? Thanks very much for your time - again!! Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stevew2 Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Steve, I haven't done anything to the gearbox aside from remove it from the engine, change the oil and refit it. I've never had the car moving under its own steam so I can't comment on its integrity when I got the car. Bearing in mind the low level of my knowledge on matters mechanical, I would say that when 'engaging' gear it does feel as if the stick is doing all the right things but that the connection between it and the gearbox bits isn't there. Is it likely that the remote link has become detached or broken? Or might there be a reason why someone might disconnect it if it was attached to a seized engine (as this was)? The gearbox had certainly been removed before I got to it. BTW, if the problem is a broken/disconnected etc remote link, is it worth removing it whilst leaving the gearbox in place as per the BL manual? Thanks very much for your time - again!! Kevin Kevin It may be easier to talk through all the possible causes of your problem on the phone,give me a ring when you have a minute.It is unusual for one of these boxes to loose drive completely,that makes me think it may be something simple. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saxchappy Posted December 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Your kindness and generosity of time are much appreciated, Steve. Is it best to contact you after the gearbox is out or before (if there really is a chance that it might be something simple!!)? Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stevew Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Your kindness and generosity of time are much appreciated, Steve. Is it best to contact you after the gearbox is out or before (if there really is a chance that it might be something simple!!)? Kevin No problem mate,only to happy to help,give me a ring before you do anything.I'm back in on Tuesday,if you need to speak before then let me know and I'll email you my mobile no. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
malcolm Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 Nice one Steve. Kevin, please be sure to post the solution when you find it Malcolm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saxchappy Posted January 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 A note to keep anybody following this posted. Big thanks again to Steve and Simon at S&S who were kind enough to talk me through some of the possible causes of my selection problem this morning. There was a moment there when we thought it may just have been that the nylon bush into which the end of the gear stick fits had worn, disabling proper selection. Sadly, removal of gear stick and inspection of bush revealed no wear. So, next stage is to drop the gearbox slightly and remove the remote link. Wear could be in the other nylon bush, but more importantly, I'll be able to try to select gear from below the car using a screwdriver. If I can, then there is likely to be a linkage problem. If not, then it's a new box . I'm hoping to get at this at the weekend if I can fit it in with family priorities. I'll keep the forum posted with the outcome and next steps! Thanks again to Steve and Simon - your expertise and experience have already saved my hours of head-scratching and thumb-twiddling Quote Link to post Share on other sites
whiteone Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 As an owner of a "sidescreen" car I don't know anything about later gearboxes but it did occur to me that later TR's may have an automatic reversing light. If so, can this be used as a clue to whether the gearshift is actually moving the gearbox internals or is it fitted too close to the lever to be of any assistance? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saxchappy Posted January 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Thanks for that thought. I think, however, that the reversing light contacts are right up by the gear lever and so their correct operation wouldn't necessarily indicate that engagement was occuring deeper in the 'box. cheers, Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rosey Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Just a thought, what oil did you refill the box with? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saxchappy Posted January 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 75W/90 part synthetic gear oil. Why do you ask? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rosey Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 75W/90 part synthetic gear oil. Why do you ask? If it's a 5 speed box then it would need ATF and not gear oil, the 5 speed box has it's own internal oil pump . Is yours a 4 or 5 speed box? Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Do you get any drive if you hold the gear lever in reverse? Has anyone looked under the car to see if the output flange is turning at all? Any chance you've forgotten to put the driven plate in? If not it's gearbox out time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saxchappy Posted January 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Sorry for the delay - had a bit of a sniffle at the weekend so no go in the sub-zero outdoors Been out tonight and removed propshaft and other bits ready for my mate to help me get the box off at the weekend (he runs a 1976 MG Roadster, but we won't hold that against him ) Anyway, the gearbox flange part (that was attached to the propshaft) turns smoothly. BTW Andy, no joy with reverse gear. I'll keep you posted with state of play at the weekend. Many thanks for your continued interest and support Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saxchappy Posted January 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Ah well - the box is out this evening. (BTW 'It is recommended that the engine and gearbox are removed as a single unit' in order to get to the gearbox/clutch seems a bit daft to me. Getting the box out was easy - even for me. Me and my MG mate just pulled it backwards on a pair of trolley jacks once the prep bits were done. Much easier than all the faffing about with the engine prep needed to remove both together.) Bad news is - when I turn the propshaft flange with the remote pushed into a gear (which one I'm not sure) the input shaft (?- the one that goes into the clutch) can be stopped from turning by grabbing it. Kn*ckered box methinks. Anyway, I'm hoping to go in tomorrow - wish me luck ! Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chris turner Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 The main shaft is probably broken, this sometimes happens whilst trying to free off a sticking clutch. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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