Gear oil for TR4A with o/d

[Rookie]

Has anybody used synthetic gear oil on these cars? You can get 80W/140 gear oil which would seem to be a decent match. The reason I ask is that I've changed gearbox oil on other cars to synthetic and it has dramatically improved the gear change (especially when cold, because synthetic retains its spec at low temperatures). The TR's is very stiff when cold.

[RogerH]

Hi Rookie,

you will get a 100 & 1 answers to this. If you did a search (top right corner) you will find this topic going back many years.

 

People use 80, 90, 30, 40, 50, EP, gear oil, engine oil, soap suds (perhaps not the soap suds) and all claim it is the best because his gearbox builder said so !!!

 

NDV specified SAE 30 or 40 back in the 50's and warned against EP oils.

TRiumph changed that to SAE80 in the 60's - probably to reduce leaks.

Nobody recommended engine oil (except the GB builders)

 

I would suggest your synthetic wouldn't stay in too long and may not get on too well with the cone clutch inside the OD.

 

I use Penrite SAE 40 Gearbox oil (it is designed to do the job properly). However other swear by their choice.

 

I would steer clear of engine oils (20/50 etc), anything EP, and Synthetic.

 

You may have other problems causing you stiff gear change. Where does the clutch pedal start to bite!!

 

 

Roger

[monty]

Agree with Roger. I have been in the same uncertainty for several years wondering what is the best to use but having read many comments I also use Penrite gear 40. Penrite 30 also works well but I have steered away from synthetics in all parts of my TR's & use quality oils to go with the old technology. I work part-time in a high end classic & vintage car restoration company & all the lads there have different opinions but most tend to agree with me, synthetics in moderns, quality mineral in our old girls. Having said that, a top TR4 racer lives around the corner & he uses full synthetic!

Cheers,

Monty.

[Rookie]

Thanks for the replies.

 

The difference between synthetic and mineral oils (AFAIK) is that the synthetics maintain a more constant viscosity (as per spec) over a wider range of temperatures and don't break down so much at high temperatures. They're also more free from impurities. I can't see how this would cause a problem for an old car - provided a compatible spec oil can be found.

 

A few years ago I had an old manual Merc - and anyone knows that Mercedes have only recently been able to be make a decent manual box. This car's gearbox was a total disaster. It baulked in all gears and the 1-2 change when cold was impossible. I replaced the oil with some Redline stuff that had Merc approval and the transformation was amazing. From being a virtually constant pain to use it became pretty good.

 

The clutch seems OK - may look into that.

[silverfox4]

Happy with Redline MT90

[Motorsport Mickey]

If you think it's fine why not give it a go, just keep us posted so we can all learn from what you put in. I'm definitely too scared to put it in mine, and I'm not a rookie. That's what we need a guineapig free thinker who's not afraid to break new ground.

 

Mick Richards

[Guest]

Volvo had a bunch of these J-types in the 140 and 240 series. There's a long list of threads on a Dutch Volvo forum. Most Volvos tend to have done a lot of milage, often more than the average TR. So, it's good to have a look over the fence and see what they say!

 

Volvo recommended SAE 30 to begin with. But that was soon changed to 20W50 (I even think that Don uses 20W50 in his 3A's OD). The list of possible choices is pretty long. A copy:

 

 

 

- 15W40
- 20W50
- 80W90GL4
- 75W90 API-4/5

 

A later addition to that list is special 10W40 motorcycle oil for so called 'wet clutch' motorcycles.

 

And this is an interesting quote from Irv Gordon who did 3,000,000 miles in his P1800:

 

 

 

I have used 80-90 gear oil during cold weather months and 85-110 gear oil
during warm weather months. The lighter grade oil is used just to allow ease of
shifting into overdrive when the gear oil is cold. This was a factory
recommendation and something I have followed with trouble free results for the
past 46 years and almost 3,000,000 miles. Volvo seems to have known what they
were talking about!

 

My car's OD has the 80W90-GL4 version.

 

Menno

Edited March 16, 2015 by Menno van Rij 2

[Rookie]

It's interesting that Volvo use the lighter grade of oil in winter to make the gears easier in the cold. That's where synthetics help because they're less prone to thickening in the cold. I think my worry about using synthetics would be mainly with the overdrive. This is a complicated bit of kit and there might be unpredictable problems.

[Guest]

Irv Gordon lives upstate New York. So there's quite a difference between summer and winter temps. More than here in NL at least.

 

Menno

[Alec Pringle]

What works in a full house competition car, engine and transmission lubrication alike, is not necessarily directly transferable to a standardish (or even fast) road car - and the same applies to most mechanical components.

 

When synthetic oils were first developed, semi-synthetic and then full synthetic, there was a lot of experimentation - trying these oils in TR overdrive boxes. The results were generally considered less than entirely satisfactory, in terms of both operation and oil retention.

 

The later 5-speed LT77 gearbox is another matter, works very well with some modern gearbox oils, although other formulations have proved very much less satisfactory.

 

Caveat emptor, but I wouldn't dismiss current generation oils simply on the basis of experience with the oils of 20 years ago. I would, however, wish to reserve a budget for overhaul in case the experiment ends in tears.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Rookie]

When synthetic oils were first developed, semi-synthetic and then full synthetic, there was a lot of experimentation - trying these oils in TR overdrive boxes. The results were generally considered less than entirely satisfactory, in terms of both operation and oil retention.

That confirms what I was worried about. I imagine the gearbox would be fine but the o/d might not like it. Pity, because it was a cheap way of getting even an old Merc manual to change gear reasonably well.

[Alec Pringle]

I'm not aware of a lubricant manufacturer who details semi-synthetic or fully synthetic oil as specifically suitable for Laycock overdrive gearboxes, as opposed to more modern American overdrives.

 

At the risk of being pedantic, Roger refers to " Penrite SAE 40 Gearbox oil ", which is not the actual designation . . . . . . it is in fact Penrite Gear Box Oil 40, GB40 for short. Rather than being SAE40, it is a 25W/70 multigrade, intended as a replacement for an original spec of SAE 40 or 50.

 

Pete Cox swears by the stuff, and he knows more about TR gearboxes and Laycock overdrives, in road and competition applications, than most specialists.

 

From personal experience, in respect of several 'boxes, it does seem to result in slightly better operation than other lubricants, and seems thus far to be holding up well in the longevity stakes - at least by all the accounts I've heard.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Alec Pringle]

In response to the inevitable question having mentioned LT77 boxes earlier . . . . the late Ken Tomlinson knew more about these than probably anyone else, ex-works gearbox specialist, and he insisted on Motul gear oils after much practical experimentation.

 

For standardish TR7s, Motylgear 75W/90 - https://www.motul.com/gb/en/products/oils-lubricants/motylgear-75w90?f%5Bapplication%5D=141&f%5Brange%5D=25

 

For tuned cars and V8s, Gear 300 - https://www.motul.com/gb/en/products/oils-lubricants/gear-300-75w90?f%5Bapplication%5D=141&f%5Brange%5D=25

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Motorsport Mickey]

That's what Ken recommended to me when he rebuilt my LT77 gearboxes for race.

 

Mick Richards

[Rookie]

At the risk of being pedantic, Roger refers to " Penrite SAE 40 Gearbox oil ", which is not the actual designation . . . . . . it is in fact Penrite Gear Box Oil 40, GB40 for short. Rather than being SAE40, it is a 25W/70 multigrade, intended as a replacement for an original spec of SAE 40 or 50.

 

Pete Cox swears by the stuff, and he knows more about TR gearboxes and Laycock overdrives, in road and competition applications, than most specialists.

Thanks for the info. I'll try this oil.

[Teriann]

Happy with Redline MT90

I do not know if Redline products are available in the UK but if they are they are well worth seeking out and paying a little extra to buy them. Their oil works very well in my TR's overdrive gearbox and limited slip differential. The 1960 Land Rover runs Redline oils in the gearbox, swivels, front (limited slip) and rear ARB locker) differentials. I do not put it in my transfecase because of leakage.

 

It really improves shiftine when the morning weather is in the teens (F).

Edited March 20, 2015 by Teriann

[Alec Pringle]

A fair number of imported Redline products are available in the UK, but it's not a case of 'a little extra' here. . . . . nearer double the cost of an equivalent UK formulated lubricant. Distribution is relatively restricted too.

 

http://www.redlineoil-europe.com/info/redlineoildealers.asp?country=United%20Kingdom

 

The Redline range might be worth the premium, but there are some well proven competitors at considerably less exotic prices.

 

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Rookie]

I do not know if Redline products are available in the UK but if they are they are well worth seeking out and paying a little extra to buy them. Their oil works very well in my TR's overdrive gearbox and limited slip differential. It really improves shiftine when the morning weather is in the teens (F).

Interesting. That's what I was thinking of getting (MT90). It's expensive stuff over here but on the Merc they reckoned that you don't need to change it because it doesn't break down like mineral oils. So in the long run it's not too bad. If it works in your TR overdrive maybe I'll risk it. It's the gearchange when cold that I want to improve.