Nigel 628 Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) At long last I will have the TR4 out competing again since the last outings, the Oulton Park Gold Cup demo weekend and the Throckmorton Challenge last October. Having discovered on removing trim that the rear floor and inner arches were not as well 'restored' as was assumed when I bought it, I have just completed a two-week high-speed restoration and am now thoroughly fed up of welding and looking forward to thrashing it to within an inch of it's life at Down Ampney airfield near Cirencester. The Get It Sideways Stages rally was my first stage rally in the newly-acquired TR4 in 2010 and I missed last year's rally through illness, so Saturday will be a good indication of how much quicker the TR4 is since I first tried it out. Much time and money has been expended on the car over the last three years since being a TR4 virgin, and most of the car's oily bits have been replaced so hopefully it is getting there. The weather forecast looks grim, I think I'll have more problems keeping it in a straight line rather than getting it sideways! Nigel Edited April 18, 2012 by Nigel 628 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dazzer Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Hi Nigel Good to hear you're getting it sideways again! Hope you have a great time. You have a very competitive TR there which you very kindly let me drive a little at the Throckmorton. Its funny how we end up undertaking major tasks just before the main event. I've just come in from the garage I'm halfway through changing the clutch for an AP racing item and its the Ilkley rally on Sunday. Let us know how you get on on Saturday and the obligatory photos... sideways of course. Cheers Darren Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 628 Posted April 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Hi Darren; hope you and Susan enjoy yourselves on the Jubilee. We'll compare notes next week! Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MichaelH Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Hi Nigel Impressed that you got the car together - still working on my list - getting closer at present aiming for the Leukaemia in May then I hope a stage event later in the year but not the Jim Clarke I want to start small and work up- or maybe just stay small! Enjoy getting it sideways Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ryan Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Best of luck at the weekend Nigel. With the rising costs of diesel to get to Ilkley and back, coupled with the repair bills due to the rougher venues and constant clockwise doughnuts we are asked to perform on the North Yorks, this kind of event definately looks like value for money once everything is taken in to consideration. Being closer to home for these stage events it might not even need a night in a hotel. Just need to get the car up to stage spec and I look forward to joining you, Best of luck again, everyone else see you in Ilkley or Skipton or Otley! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 628 Posted April 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) Thanks, guys! And best of luck for all the Triumphs on the Ilkley. We are all loaded up and ready to go at sparrow fart in the morning. It's about two and a half hours from here so it's a 4am start! There has been an increasing trend for camping at stage rallies in the last two years or so, not surprising with rising costs. Whilst three years ago organisers would just let you pitch a tent by your service vehicle - or sleep inside it - now they are often setting aside an area for camping. More people are now using motorhomes as towcar/service vehicle/accommodation (saves on hotel bills and convenient for the rally) as I have been doing with my little camper, usually if it is your service vehicle too there's no quibble about sleeping in it with your service pass in the windscreen especially if the service park is the same for the whole event. Last years Leukaemia road rally was handy as it started from a caravan site. It cost me £8 per night including mains hookup; I stopped Saturday night too and had a leisurely drive back to Cheshire on Sunday morning. I'm looking forward to Michael's car being out soon and would love to see you joining us too, Ryan. And I know Darren would like a go. These single venue stage rallies are relatively cheap and great fun and often have an historic class nowadays; for about £200 entry fee you get a day driving flat out round an airfield, army camp or other such private land, no traffic cops/give ways/speed limits/tricky navigation/bimbling along at 26 mph/trying to remember which way to go round some random cones etc. The stage is clearly marked, just drive it as fast as you dare, simple as that, and to add further excitement two or three-lap stages often involve side-by-side racing with other competitors. OK, there's not so much for the navigator to do, but with the bigger events come the pace notes and then teamwork moves to another level altogether. Nigel Edited April 20, 2012 by Nigel 628 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 628 Posted April 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 The old TR outlasts modern cars and other Historics to maintain it's 100% finishing record! The Gloucestershire weather was dry and sunny in the morning but after lunch the alternate heavy showers/sunshine started and we even had a serious hailstorm! The stages were very slippery and greasy first thing but soon dried out, they got wet again later on but by then most of the mud and bovine by-products had been cleared from the driving line by the morning stages so they weren't as treacherous. I had a quick rotate exiting a chicane and putting the power on too quickly on very slimy smooth concrete on stage one, but felt better when another driver told me he'd spun four times on that stage! Despite the spin I was elated to find we'd nearly caught the Peugeot 205 GTi which started in front of us by the finish; I was trembling with first-stage nerves and thought my heart was about to burst out of my chest but of course, that could just be my age! By stage three I had settled down and started to really enjoy myself. My final total was 2 harmless spins, one off-track excursion over some bumpy grass, and one high-speed half spin on a long right hander through the small tree branches alongside the track but regaining control (I like to think....) without a full spin, back on the track without actually hitting the trunks....phew! There were quite a few bent cars, mainly from sliding head-on into straw bale chicanes under panic braking. Even when wet, the secret is to do your braking before the chicane and then power it through, if you freeze on the brakes you are doomed to be embedded in straw. As usual the grip just comes straight back as soon as you lift off the brakes, even on tarmac rally tyres on slippery surfaces - and I always buy the hard compound ones 'cos they last longer! I have found in the past that tarmac stage rallies are hard on cars, the retirement rate was high yesterday from mechanical woes as well as bent bodywork, amongst the modern cars as much as the Historics. The TR4 didn't miss a beat, I lifted the bonnet once for a quick visual check and the total body damage after the tree branches episode was the first 2 inches of the O/S front wing chrome strip bent up and driver's door mirror out of line - no doubt about it, she's a tough old beast! I suppose I'll find some more paint scratches to add to the collection when I wash the mud off, but compared with the damage evident on many of the moderns, which seemed to fall apart after just clipping a plastic marker cone: well, we clipped one or two at speed with no apparent effect to the car at all. Interestingly, and in the light of recent discussions on TR replica classic car component standards, one of our fastest Minis had a near-disaster when the steering broke on a fast bend, sending the car straight off into some trees - thankfully it came to rest without hitting any. Apparently he'd fitted a 'new' steering rack recently, and it turned out the rack stub had sheared clean off - something none of us have ever heard of before on Minis. Hmmm....... Is she better than two years ago? Too right! One very long straight saw us regularly clocking over 100mph on a narrow, bumpy, broken concrete track and out-accelerating moderns, pulling away easily or catching them (lots of encountering other cars on the two-laps-of-the-airfield system used to get good stage mileage out of the venue). Thanks to TR Enterprises for building such a great engine/box/axle combination. The handling is getting much better and 'getting it sideways' is coming on nicely although I'll never manage to emulate the spectacular tail-out style of the Escorts! I am still amazed at how the old girl can hold her own with the modern cars, I had more trouble keeping up with some of the other pre-1968 historics! Mostly rapid Cooper S's with a very quick Cortina GT and Healey 3000. I think the old bangers showed many of the youngsters up, our best effort was overtaking an MG ZR and an Astra 16v GTE, and nearly catching the BMW 325i which had started 30 seconds ahead of us, all in the same stage! We started behind the BM all afternoon and nearly caught him on every stage; lots of moderns appeared behind us on merges (different laps) but none got close to catching us and we held off or pulled away from all save one Mk2 RS2000 which came out of a merge on his second lap close behind us and I let through as he was much quicker than us. No-one caught us outright on the stages, although we started in front of some fast moderns throughout the day. Generally, the moderns can beat us on braking and cornering which is only to be expected, but to my surprise our acceleration and speed often made up for the disadvantage. Out of 62 starters and 45 finishers, we placed 27th overall. The highest-placed pre-1968 car was a Mini Cooper S in 15th.....that's overall, not class placing, brilliant result! Now, what can I do to make WKE faster? Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MichaelH Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 Well done that man- inspiration or what? Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ryan Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 Great result Nigel, well done. To show the modern boys the way, not only in a historic, but early sixties TR must have you grinning from ear to ear, I know i would be. It reminds me of a little story from Terry Pickering (no relation) who managed to lose 3 moderns off the back of him ( I'm sure you know what I mean) on the Carpetbagger in the early 2000s. All in his 3a. The thing was that they couldn't understand what had gone wrong with their 205, Astra , (fill in your own fwd trolley here). Sometimes an average driver comes up against a well prepared car with well prepared driver, and when they spend big money they aren't prepared to accept where the weak link is! Once again great effort and I hope to join you soon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TorontoTim Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Great write up, great result!! I echo Ryan's comments - beating those moderns must be a whole LOAD of fun and VERY amusing. On the couple of occasions I've done similar on twisty, gravel sections on road rallies here has certainly given me a warm feeling about our tough old cars... Truly great result - well done. Your modesty about what must be some serious driving skills does you credit too - but we know that the nut holding the steering wheel must be the best go-faster piece of kit in your TR! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 628 Posted April 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Thanks guys, and a fine win on the Ilkley Jubilee for Ryan! A good weekend all round as it turned out, despite the weather. I have to admit that apart from the retirements we were the last placed Historic class car, my excuse is that I'm old enough now to realise I'm no longer immortal and caution creeps in! But also historically speaking once the Minis came along in the early sixties' rallies, the TR4's days were numbered. What fascinates me is that on a 21st Century clubmans stage rally like this, on a very fast open airfield, where the speed and handling of the car are critical and no navigational expertise is required, 1960's cars restricted to 1960's tuning and 70 series tyres can still be so competitive. OK, it's only a small single-venue rally, and we can't touch the top modern cars or most of the later Historic Class Escorts, but the mid- to late-field moderns still seem fair game to us oldies! And as Tim knows, that's a great feeling of satisfaction. Keeping going when they break or fall apart is nice, to beat them in a straight wheel-to-wheel fight is even nicer! For the sixties' class cars to all place between 15th and 27th out of 45 finishers in a modern stage rally......I love it! Looking forward to a three-TR4 team in the future........ Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dazzer Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Well done Nigel and well done Ryan... and well done Triumph. Nice to hear you were out-driving the modern machinery Nigel. Post some pictures when you have some. The Ilkley was as enjoyable as ever, a few problems with incorrect instructions handed out to a few competitors including ourselves, but didnt spoil the event or the humour of the rain lashed Marshalls who did a superb job. We had an impressive off as well coming up Scargill reservoir in full view of the competitors waiting to start, we slid off the track in a very impressive power slide and I really thought we were going for a woodland interlude but as luck would have it the big Triumph bounced off something in the undergrowth and flicked itself back on the road with an opposite lock power slide just straightening up before we crossed the bridge. Spare travelling pants required. Ryan and his Navigator played a blinder a very competitive event. We managed 11th, although for the first time at lunch we were running 3rd overall! However, It was the kiss of death after that, we got over excited and our timing went to pot. Would have been nice to have supported Ryan with another Triumph up the leader board. Cheers Dazzer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Well done chaps, just goes to show what a combination of great cars and great drivers can do even in this day and age. Keep up the good work. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TorontoTim Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 And great navigators! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dazzer Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 video posted on you tube of a test on the ilkley rally a few tasty TRs and others and yours truly in our 2000 at 2 mins 50sec. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tr4Tony Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Well done Ryan, good result. And dazzler too .... Sorry we weren't up to a better finish ! Nigel, I have a feeing we will be sharing a crew soon ..... Jealous or what ... Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 628 Posted April 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 Some photos on the web now; have a look at proofs on http://www.kpbphotog...order=ascending scroll down and click thumbnails to expand. Nothing spectacular but I see the snapper has incuded a sequence of us 'getting it backwards' after one of the afternoon rain storms...... thanks! An embarrassing loss of time there, it was like hitting ice! Some of the standing water puddles on the fast bits were hitting the floorpan like sledgehammers. For anyone who would like a taste of what these rallies are like, put 'Get it Sideways 2012' into You Tube's search engine and watch a selection of outside and in-car footage of the rally. It gives a good idea of what it's like to drive a special stage. The SS10 in-car exploits of car 66 are particularly entertaining - that's the way to make your car last until the finish line and no further! There are more clips of the previous years' GiS rallies if you alter the year. Whilst rather contrived compared with big stage rallies on 'proper' closed roads or forests, these events are great fun at much less money - pretty much a very long, open special test on a road rally without the speed restrictions. The Caerwent and woodland tests on the Leukaemia are the closest I've done to stages on a road rally, just remove the deviations to drive round the odd cones to keep average speeds down and it's much the same. OK the straw bale chicanes on the GiS were there to slow the cars down on the more dangerous bits but as you can see there were several unrestricted straights as well, and by the afternoon we were just changing down to third on approach then taking the chicanes accelerating hard again, they were getting faster throughout the day as the cars wore the straw away! Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 628 Posted April 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 http://www.edpphoto.co.uk/rallying/getitsideways/getitsideways0421/Get%20it%20Sideways%20car%2051-60/index.html Lots of sequential photos. Again nothing spectacular, these were mostly relatively slow corners. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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