Nigel 628 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 This well-known and popular 3-day event has been held in the Berwickshire area since 1970, and was conceived as a memorial for our late, great Grand Prix champion Jim Clark who lived near the town of Duns where the rally starts and finishes. It is unique in the British mainland as being the only special stage rally where the competitive stages take place on closed public roads. It's all-tarmac, very fast and spectacular (have a look at YouTube). I remember watching Roger Clark win it when on holiday in the area in 1972, and now, nearly forty years later, I want to do it in my TR4. Plans are being hatched now the entries are open on the website, in the meantime if any TR Register members in the area can help with info on the event - or even help on it! - I will be interested to hear from you. http://jimclarkrally.com Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dazzer Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 I would love to do this rally if I was set up for stage events. Interestingly, whilst restoring the DKW sonderklasse I've briefly corresponded with Ian Scott Watson and read some of his entertaining articles on his early motorsport days with Jim Clark. I hadnt realised that Jim Clark's first competitive stint was in a DKW at Crimond and before that he had co driven with Ian Scott Watson in a DKW. The DKWs they used were straight out of the box as well, just lightened by removing the bumpers and a seats. Would that still be OK with regs now? No seatbelts either. Exactly to period spec and documented... Call me pessimistic but I cant see it somehow. Next year maybe, depending on the regs for a 58 DKW I'd love to give it a go. Go for it Nigel, sounds like a hell of an adventure. If I manage to copy the article I'll email it over to you. Darren Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Boyd Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Talk to Steve at TRE he has done this event a few times Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 628 Posted March 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Thanks for the suggestion, Stiggy - I already have! Steve was one of the people who encouraged me to have a go earlier this year. I have several rallying friends who have done the rally before plus the services of an experienced pacenote co-driver who did the JCR in 2009. Everyone I speak to tells me it's a fabulous weekend! Steve did the rally in his TR4 a while back, and someone in a TR6 has done it twice I'm told. Needless to say we would be contesting the Historic Rally on Friday/Saturday. Entries opened this week but no regs for the historics as yet. There's a bit about Jim's debut in the DKW in his writeup on the JCR website, Darren. I remember recently seeing a photo of the car in the race as well, but can't find it now. Memory's going! Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thescrapman Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 It looks a very interesting event. Watched some of the Youtube footage, seems a Mk1/2 Escort still looks very good. Infact apart from an Opel Manta, I saw no other Historics... :-) Common as muck still it seems. I will watch your reports if you enter this year, I suspect a few events like that may be on the calendar for me and my chauffeur when his TR6 is finished. Cheers Colin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
graycow Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 The TR6 was a guy from Dunbar called Peter Humphrey who staged the car for a couple of years a few years ago. I think he is probably doing the event again this year, but in a Kadett GTE. I've driven most of the roads they use in night events and they are cracking roads but watch the bumps. Most "offs" seem to come from bad landings after yumps!! Last year they had a stage through the centre of Duns itself. Not sure if that is being repeated. If you need any help on the event then shout. I notice from the CRC forum that a lot of the CRC guys have already got some things sorted out for you. Graham Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 628 Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Er -yes, I've noticed that in the YouTube footage. Especially at Swinton Crossroads - and the Subaru altitude attempt! Hopefully the pacenotes will be good; we won't be doing the recce but fortunately my co-driver knows the roads and has competed on the JCR before. Tthe TR4 is not good at fast landings thanks to it's rear leaf springs and lever arm shockers. Damn these historic regs! It does tend to hop about a bit at the back. I am aiming for a steady, clean run and finishing with the car in one piece. I hear that the Duns stage traditionally opens the rally: I have a B&W photo I took in 1972 of Roger Clark driving the old Esso Uniflo Mk1 through the streets! Thanks for the offer of help, Graham. It's great that people are willing to help as I'll be new to the area and the rally, and I'm hoping to put quite a few faces to forum names during the rally. Look forward to seeing you there. The entry went in this evening, just waiting for confirmation. I only entered the Historic; I'll spectate/help others/marshal on Sunday's Reivers this time round. Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dazzer Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 I've entertained myself for hours watching the You tube footage of this event, especially the historic footage. I take it these are closed roads? Let us know all about it Nigel as I will definitely be taking part next year. Good luck Darren Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 628 Posted April 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 Yes, it's definately closed public roads. Those clips on YouTube really are special stages, not road rally sections. As such the rally is unique in mainland UK, and is the result of excellent co-operation between the organising clubs, and all the local and main Berwickshire Councils. The MSA has recently been lobbying Parliament for closed road rallies with favourable response, but it may be some way away yet. I understand the stumbling block is not the closure of the roads, which is a procedure available already, but the suspension of the Road Traffic Act laws for the duration of the event, which requires an act of Parliament. Is that correct? Not much fun driving a fast stage when you have to keep to 30mph, keep to the left, and give way to other traffic at the junctions! (That's regularity rallying, only at 24mph instead!!!) Anyway, our entry has been accepted and plans are now being made. Just us and a Mini in Category 1 so far, and they tell me they are glad of the company as they were on their own in the class last year! Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
4Mal Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 Yes, it's definately closed public roads. Those clips on YouTube really are special stages, not road rally sections. As such the rally is unique in mainland UK, and is the result of excellent co-operation between the organising clubs, and all the local and main Berwickshire Councils. The MSA has recently been lobbying Parliament for closed road rallies with favourable response, but it may be some way away yet. I understand the stumbling block is not the closure of the roads, which is a procedure available already, but the suspension of the Road Traffic Act laws for the duration of the event, which requires an act of Parliament. Is that correct? Not much fun driving a fast stage when you have to keep to 30mph, keep to the left, and give way to other traffic at the junctions! (That's regularity rallying, only at 24mph instead!!!) Anyway, our entry has been accepted and plans are now being made. Just us and a Mini in Category 1 so far, and they tell me they are glad of the company as they were on their own in the class last year! Nigel So they may be second in class this year then Nigel.......??? Engine ok and run in now? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 628 Posted April 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 Yes, all sorted now, Mal! After Steve delivered both our TR4's I put another 300 miles on the rebuilt engine and changed the brake master cylinders to smaller diameter AP racing ones Steve supplied, and the brakes are much improved now. Real confidence booster, that one...! I took a nice sunny day's drive over to Blidworth where James torqued the head down and set all it up again with new oil. I got home a lot quicker than the journey out..! Glorious! It is all coming together very well now; engine, transmission, gearing, and now working brakes! I was all ready for the Get it Sideways Stages near Cirencester last Saturday, the rally that marked WKE's first foray into stages last year and where I was really going to show the other historics the way home with my totally revitalised car, when I picked up a nast virus the week before and had to pull my entry. Utterly gutted! Apart from missing a very enjoyable rally, it was an excellent opportunity to compare how much improved the car is now from the same time 12 months ago. Next HRCR round is the RDP Welsh Rally on Epynt in three weeks but it's looking doubtful - do I bung an entry in and hope I'll be well enough by then, or wait and see but be too late for an entry even if I'm fit enough? So that's two tarmac rounds missed, I'll have to be venturing back into the forests if I want to score any points this year! The plans are still progressing for the Jim Clark, although it's not HRCR of course. I've had to spend a week and a half staring out of my bedroom window at the beautiful sunshine while the TR sits silently in the workshop.....I'll bet your car hasn't been idle though! Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 628 Posted April 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 A little update. Having missed the GIS Rally, I was still undecided about the RDP Welsh as I am much better now but still a bit weak - I suppose the older you are the longer the recovery - I didn't really want to risk a potentially dangerous place like the Epynt ranges for the first time if I'm not 100%. However the decision has been made for me when the organisers had to cancel the event owing to insufficient entries being received by last weekend. Naturally I have every sympathy for the organising club in this situation, plus the HRCR Challenge organisers at losing a round, but it's an ill wind.... it's given me a breathing space at least. Nevertheless, I am now faced with tackling some more gravel rallies if I want to get any sort of result on the Challenge this year as the BHRC/HSRC round in Belgium in September may to be too expensive, and I am probably going to miss the Severn Valley Stages (which is also a joint BHRC round) as I will still be in Scotland. Unfortunately, part of my build-up for the Jim Clark was going to be the GIS and Welsh rallies, which would have given me the opportunity to try the TR4 out, sort out any issues and give both the car and myself a chance to 'bed in' and get some competitive miles under our belts. It's a very different car to drive now from the car it was last year! Now it seems I will be learning it on the first stages of the JCR after all....so don't expect too much for the first evening! However, to compensate, Les and I have put an entry in for the HRCR Clubmans Leukaemia Rally in mid-May and we will use the TR4 in lieu of the 2000 so I can get some miles in. I believe Caerwent is on the agenda, which is the venue for a round of the HSRC later in the summer, so that will be a handy 'recce' too as it will be my first time there. Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 628 Posted May 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 (edited) All go for Scotland! Leaving tomorrow, the TR4 is as ready as it's going to be. Car no 307, only ourselves and a Cooper 'S' in the pre 1968 class! Give us a wave, or say hello if you are marshalling or in the service park. Nigel Edited May 24, 2011 by Nigel 628 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tr4Tony Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Good luck !!!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 628 Posted May 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 Made it to the finish, racing flat out on public roads, magic! TR as reliable as ever, picked up a very nice trophy for 2nd in class 1 Historic. Now for a week's holiday up here in bonny Scotland, report when I get back. Brilliant weekend! Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 Well done Nigel. Enjoy your holiday. Stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 628 Posted June 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) The Jim Clark Rally weekend was a great experience; everyone had told me what a fantastic atmosphere the event enjoys and they were right. When we left our local farm campsite last Saturday we made a provisional booking for the JCR 2012 weekend! Although we had a good rally and picked up an award, it was very obvious that Category 1 cars are struggling on stage rallies nowadays. Both the Cooper 'S' and our TR4 were no match for the later historics, and once again the usual situation quickly developed: the Cat 2 and Cat3 cars ran off into the distance leaving us following as best we could to finish at the tail end of the field. I know we are in a different class but a TR4 has such archaic 50's engineering compared to the Escorts that the difference in performance is massive. On road rallies the navigation factor makes up for this but on stages power and handling are king. The number of Cat 1 cars competing on stage rallies is dwindling fast. On Friday night, racing round the streets of Duns was an incredible experience, but when we got out into the twisty, bumpy moorlands as it went dark, we foundered badly, concentrating on just getting out of the way as faster cars caught us up. I went to bed that night in the motorhome, disillusioned and thinking of selling the TR and buying a cat 3 car instead (Peter's Kadett GT/E impressed me, and he told me he's done the rally in a TR6 previously as Greycow said... and nice to meet you at the Duns start, Graham). But then Saturday started and it all began to come together. Now I could see where I was going, for starters! Adam and I - we'd not done a rally together before but he's done the JCR twice previously - started to gel with the pacenotes, and I started to read the roads better and get the feel of the car. The tyres were great and we dodged all the occasional rain showers to enjoy dry stages all day. By the final stages we were really motoring - clocking well over 100 mph (on a 4.55 diff)on many of the long straights which was a little scary with the silly lever arm dampers allowing the rear of the car to hop around - and on pace notes this was often through blind bends on the wrong side of the road. It takes a while to trust the notes and to believe there really isn't any traffic coming the other way, taking cross roads through a 'give way' at these speeds doesn't come naturally at first! Apart from a cracked disi cap my eagle-eyed service crew noticed at the final service halt when a slight misfire was being investigated, and a dodgy electric fan connection, the trusty TR ran faultlessly to the end of the rally once again to maintain it's 100% finishing record. Not so lucky was our fellow TR compatriot Steve Hall, who retired his TR7 V8 only a few miles from the end of the last stage when a rear wheel sheared all it's studs and left him with a three-wheeled car. Hard luck, Steve, and thanks for waving us on as we passed the stricken TR7. And do you know what? We scored one really big 'triumph' (sorry!) over all the Escorts/Evos/Imprezas. Throughout the whole of the rally, lots of spectators, marshals and fellow competitors complimented us on the little TR4, it became clear that once again people loved to see the old car out on the stages being driven hard, even the rally scrutineer called it a 'proper rally car'and claimed a preference for it over all the modern cars! Everyone we spoke to knew the car immediately - try that with an Escort! On the last stage I was concentrating hard but noticed a couple of spectators waving us on; I told Adam at the finish and he said "They were all cheering and clapping us all the way round, willing us to get to the finish!" I think I'll persevere with WKE 628 a little while longer....... Nigel Some cracking photos of each of the historics on: http://www.pro-rally.co.uk/gallery/2011/2011_jim_clark_historic_rally_photos/index.html Edited June 7, 2011 by Nigel 628 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Well done Nigel. Looks as if it was a bit "Yumpy" Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TorontoTim Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Great effort, Nigel - glad you had fun. And, as Stuart says, looks like there was plenty of opportunity to get airborne... It's a shame to hear that Category 1 is dwindling and, with it, the chance for you to have a bigger competitive challenge where the TR can still get a result (which, after all, is at least part of what drives us all to compete). Have all the Healeys and early 911's disappeared now? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tr4Tony Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Great pics too ! I love that picture .... almost as much clawing of the air as those Escorts and thats some going old fruit ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 628 Posted June 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Well, we were trying quite hard on the Saturday afternoon Tony - but it's difficult to match the Escorts in wheel waving, that's all the suspension travel the TR4's got! Category 1 is still quite healthy in UK road rallies, Tim, as the navigational factor is a great power leveller: a competant driver and navigator can do well against the 'moderns' as you are proving in your championship. Healeys, TR's, MGB's, 911's and the like are still regular competitors. Despite our special tests favouring the smaller, more powerful and agile sports cars, for most historic regularity road rallies good results are achievable in most types of vehicle. However, on special stage events, sheer performance is paramount,although on gravel rallies driver skill can compensate for lack of power to some extent. The Cat 1 cars are getting older and generally more valuable, as well as that big difference in performance from the Cat 2 and 3 cars, so I suppose there are fewer owners willing to risk their cherished cars on these types of events - I don't know what that says about me, then! There is also a huge difference in car preparation requirements; although the historics have their own supplementary rules, we still have to comply with the overall MSA requirements. It would probably cost at least £2k to bring the average road rally car up to stage log booking standard, even the ones which already have a good level of preparation acceptable for road events - much of it would not meet the regs so would have to be replaced. Then the car will end up as a dedicated stage rally car and is no longer much use as a practical road car so you must be prepared to sacrifice your beloved TR to this end in the same manner as a serious circuit racing car. Then it will be thrashed to within an inch of it's life each time out, and with an older car this means lots of mechanical problems and maintainance between events (OK, WKE has been 100% reliable so far but I put a lot of hours on it between rallies), plus a far greater risk of a high-speed 'off'. The majority of Cat 1 stage cars in the UK are Minis, in the same manner as the majority of Cat 2 & 3 cars are Escorts. Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dazzer Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 That picture is fantastic... really pushing on. Hope to see you out again on an event soon. All the best Darren Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thescrapman Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 There is also a huge difference in car preparation requirements; although the historics have their own supplementary rules, we still have to comply with the overall MSA requirements. It would probably cost at least £2k to bring the average road rally car up to stage log booking standard, even the ones which already have a good level of preparation acceptable for road events - much of it would not meet the regs so would have to be replaced. Then the car will end up as a dedicated stage rally car and is no longer much use as a practical road car so you must be prepared to sacrifice your beloved TR to this end in the same manner as a serious circuit racing car. Nigel (and others) Sorry to hijack this thread a bit, What have you guys that do stage rallying done for seats in your TR's, have you had to fit FIA Approved ones, and if so which ones? As you may know, I read the maps for a friend in a TR6 on the navigational Road Rallies, in his normal road car, but later this year the replacement will be ready, and he will want to use it for Historic Stage Rallies. It has been built to the homologated paperwork from the MSA. But we are stuck for seats, that fit, both physically in teh car, and round us, and that also comply to teh FIA approval regulations. Cheers Colin p.s. if we get it sorted you may see the TR6 out on the Jim Clark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 628 Posted June 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) Hi Colin To qualify for a stage rally log book, all cars have to comply with MSA general safety requirements over and above their homolgation papers, so amongst other items you will need FIA approved seats and belts. These are valid for 5 years from the date of manufacture. The TR4 is on the narrow side so most FIA competition seats don't fit, but I found the seats from my offroad racer just fitted snugly. They were specially made by Motordrive with a slimmer design and slightly narrower shoulder 'wings' for the Dakar Rally Bowler Wildcats (now manufactured as QT Wildcats) and they will make you some to order, just quote Wildcat type 'WC2'. They can make them in various materials according to your choice and wallet. I used their alloy seat mountings to suit, the mounts are multi-hole so there's quite a lot of adjustment to play with although it was a bit of a squeeze and took a long time to get just right! Some relieving of the mounts and the plastic gearbox tunnel was required. With the seats bolted directly to the floor, I can fit in OK without bumping my helmet on the hardtop and I'm 6'2", and although slim the seats are not uncomfortably narrow. Hopefully the TR6 will be easier! Have a look at http://www.motordrive.com or ring 0161 724 5176 and speak to Alan, they are well clued up about rallying and very helpful. Mail order is no problem. They are also agents for TRS belts so I bought some 5-point 3" belts at the same time, again they can advise you on types avilable. Unless you need them soon, if you leave the purchase until early next January they will supply Jan 2012 dated seats and belts so you gain the full five years life. Hope this helps. It would be great to see another chassis TR out on the stages, it's getting lonely out there! Nigel Edited June 23, 2011 by Nigel 628 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thescrapman Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Thanks for that I suspect we may still need to go dietting yet, but will do some investigations in that direction. Cheers Colin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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