TomMull Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 My usual inclination when presented with the choice of original or upgrade is to go with the original, particularly when the upgrade is irreversible and cost more to boot. In this case the upgrade is the rear main seal. While I admit having noticed an occasional drip from the bell housing in the past, rear main leakage never seemed a problem and the inside of the housing was surprisingly dry on teardown. Seepage from the sump and rocker cover gaskets was more often the cause of drips. In addition, I don’t really like the idea of grinding the crank and drilling holes in the bearing cap. However, after looking over some previous threads, the consensus seems to be that the lip seal conversion is far superior (no drip at all), if it’s done right. So two questions here, although I’ll appreciate any comments: 1. Has any reader had a recent experience with the replacement (or re-use) of the original “seal”? In other words, how bad is it if everything is up to specs? 2. Wasn’t someone working on a lip seal that does not require crankshaft modification? I seem to remember a forum post but my search failed to find it. Thanks in advance. Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwifrog Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 (edited) Hi Tom It is MadMarx who had a run of rear oil seals made that do not require crank modification. I bought one but have not yet fitted it. It comes with very good instructions seal Cheers Alan Edited October 6, 2010 by Kiwifrog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RandallD Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Tom- You can get MadMarx's (Chris's) new seal from Joe Alexander in the US. I did that about a month ago and just installed it in the TR3A engine I am rebuilding. Joe provides a modified scroll seal for fitting the Viton seal Chris developed and will take your old scroll seal as a core. No idea if it works better yet as I won't be running the engine for a while, but the install was easy, Chris's instructions are great, and I'm very pleased that I did not machine the crank. Still too many bad stories out there about having the crank ground down too small for the modern seal so I am deferring that mistake for later! Regards, Randy 59 TR3A 64 TR4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TomMull Posted October 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Hi Tom It is MadMarx who had a run of rear oil seals made that do not require crank modification. I bought one but have not yet fitted it. It comes with very good instructions seal Cheers Alan Alan, Thanks for the reply and the link. Although my requirements are quite different than Chris’ (MadMax), his design seems to have some advantages over other lip seal designs. It relies on the original setup, which redirects the oil flow, as well as the lip seal to keep the oil inside. It is easy and relatively inexpensive to revert back to the original design and of course, the crankshaft remains unmodified, I’ve not yet decided to try this out but I have asked the machinist to deliver my crank with the scrolls intact and I do have the US reps contact info; I'll keep you posted if I go that route. I'd still like to hear from anyone who is relatively happy with the original setup. Am I the only one left? Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Hi Tom, can't say I've ever had a problem with a rear seal, or felt the need to 'upgrade' it, at least not on a road car - taking the engine past 5500rpm on a regular basis might be a different matter though. I can well understand the capability of improvement for a competition engine. Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dick Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Each to his own but I have never had a problem with the original set up....in 40 years and nearly 200,000 miles. I suspect that oil leaks are more to do with.... . The seal not fitted properly. It's not just the scroll that prevents oil loss. . Heavy breathing engines or inadequate crank case ventillation.. . Worn main bearings. I personally wouldn't fit a modern conversion as I have not got a problem to solve. These cars and their variants were fairly well thought out and tested over a considerable time span....two decades or so and while some mods. no doubt do give a benefit, some can be classed as 'Goodies' and not essential unless the car is subjected to extreme conditions......racing etc.....just my opinion. Regards Dick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MadMarx Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 can't say I've ever had a problem with a rear seal, or felt the need to 'upgrade' it, at least not on a road car - taking the engine past 5500rpm on a regular basis might be a different matter though. I can well understand the capability of improvement for a competition engine. High revs do cause the stock crank seal to leak. Everything beyond 5500 rpm cause the trouble at my car. A lip seal might be an overkill to a road car. Cheers Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest colinTR2 Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 Tom I am relatively happy with my TR2 being all original. Of course it leaves its marks, but don't they all? On a long trip to the Loire I don't notice significant oil loss, just one or two drips where it parks up. Having said that, if the engine was coming out for other reasons then..... Colin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TomMull Posted October 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 High revs do cause the stock crank seal to leak. Everything beyond 5500 rpm cause the trouble at my car. A lip seal might be an overkill to a road car. Cheers Chris Chris, I certainly had no intention of undermining the utility of your seal in road cars. It is quite probably just the thing for taking care of that last drip after everything else has been sealed with silicone gaskets, modern goo and the like and I would not hesitate to use it if a real leak occurred as you experienced under racing conditions. What I do question is the modification of crankshafts and the drilling of bearing caps as a standard rebuild procedure. The few responses here (thanks all) seem to confirm my inclination that the original design is not bad enough to warrant that, under road conditions of course (the last time I hit 5K was when I missed a shift). Your seal does not require any of it. If I read your directions correctly, the only modification is to the aluminum retainers and those are replaceable parts. Perhaps there is nothing wrong with a bit of overkill as long as it is relatively cheap and it does no harm. Congratulations on truly clever design. Although I plan to use the original seal on my present rebuild, I think I’ll keep one of yours on hand, just in case. Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John McIver Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 Good Morning Folks, Chris's design and execution are to be commended. It is a development of a suggestion offered to me some forty six years ago which involved fitting of the Ferguson tractor seal. This fitment was done on my TR3A of the time and whilst memory of the job is a little vague, it involved removal of the flanged step of the alloy halves to use it as the seal retainer. The fix was quite successful and lasted at least 35k miles until the car was sold in 1966. The idea came from a TR owning mechanic who worked in a Ford Dealership at the time. Regards, John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 Good Morning Folks, Chris's design and execution are to be commended. It is a development of a suggestion offered to me some forty six years ago which involved fitting of the Ferguson tractor seal. This fitment was done on my TR3A of the time and whilst memory of the job is a little vague, it involved removal of the flanged step of the alloy halves to use it as the seal retainer. The fix was quite successful and lasted at least 35k miles until the car was sold in 1966. The idea came from a TR owning mechanic who worked in a Ford Dealership at the time. Regards, John Yes thats something I have always found strange that the tractor engine has a proper lip seal for a low revving engine and the car engine doesnt. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andreas Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 Hi folks, I bought from Mad Marx also a seal. My engine builder was excited by this idea. Yours sincerely, Andreas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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