Leaky Axle seal

[greasybuildup]

I've recently been re-doing the rear brakes on my TR-4 and I noticed that the right-rear was all greasy inside and the pads and drum were heavily fouled with oil/grease. I cleaned everything up and it has been sitting for about a week and a half now. I took a look at it last night and sure enough, there is what appears to be gear oil leaking out from between the brake plate and the rear hub bearing housing, dripping down the inside of the brake plate (the side the pads/springs etc. are on). Obviously, I'm not too keen on putting brand new pads on this in that condition.

Looking at schematics, it appears that the likely cause is a leaking inner axle oil seal. I'll bet that the whole "grease chamber" for the rear hub bearing is full of the gear oil. Also, I don't think that the rear hub bearing has been greased for probably 15 years. Is is possible that the oil is leaking through so heavily due to the absence of fresh grease? I was thinking of taking the grease nipple off to drain out the extra gear oil and then greasing it up and see what happens. Also I will check that the bolts holding the bearing housing are good and tight. Would that just be a waste of time? I'd rather not have to pull the hub and replace the seal, but if I for sure have to do that, then now is the time. Has anyone else had a similar experience?

 

Thanks for the help!

 

-Colin

[Richardtr3a]

I wrestled with this for years. The inner oil seal is easy to fit but the half shaft must be in very good condition. Mine was worn and replaced by a TR specialist. It still leaked and the replacement had no screws to locate the drum. Maybe it came from some other car. They also charged me for 4 x brake shoes but only fitted 2.Thank you and goodbye.

Finally I found a supersleeve from a company in the midlands via a contact in Australia.This slides over the worn part of the shaft, and is so thin that the oil seal works even better. I made up a suitable fitting tool from gas main pipe and tapped the sleeve over my grooved half shaft. It worked immediately and this was at least 6 years ago.

ou will leak enough oil into the drum while driving to the MOT station that a fail will be unavoidable.

A supersleeve and a new seal for about £25 will end your problem.

[uvc166]

Hi Richard , do you have a name or contact number for supplier of seals , cheers Paul.

[Kiwifrog]

pulling a rear hub on a tr4 needs a special tool or the half shafts/hub will be damaged. I think it is churchill M86A I believe it is not such a problem for TR3 axles

 

Cheers

 

Alan

[mandarawessels]

I would suggest you also check that he diff breather nipple is open, and not full of **** and blocked as was the case with my rear axle.

cheers

john

[Dazzer]

Hi Colin

 

First check the axle oil level is not too high, it should just trickle out of the level plug, or if you put your small finger through the filler/level hole you should just feel it.

 

It's really easy to remove the half shafts/hubs and you can see the seals once the half shaft is out. You just knock the six lock tabs back and undue the six nuts and the half shaft just drops out. I should know I've done mine several times over with replacement half shafts/ wheel studs etc.

 

Take note of the shims which come out of each side and try to keep them equal (ish) both sides. Don't bother with replacing the lock tabs on the six hub locating nuts, just use spring washers on replacement.

 

You'll also have to check the end float in the bearings, par for the course you'll have more than the workshop manual allows (I think 4 to 6 thou) off the top off my head but generally 10 to 12 thou is pretty common.

 

You can use a DTI but basically you should just be able to feel slight movement very similar to a well adjusted front wheel bearing.

 

Note: adjusting the shims on one side will have an effect on the other side... it doesn't tell you this in the manual. Also adding shims increases the play, removing shims reduces play. The shims also come in various thickness.

 

I've not replaced the seals but you can see them clearly with the hub and half shaft out, it doesn't look like a difficult job to replace the seal.

 

Cheers

 

darren

[stuart]

TR 2s and early 3s with Lockheed axles were favorite for leaking from outer seals (Regular service item virtually)and TR4s are no different, as Dazzer has said its an easy job to pull the half shaft out c/w hub and the seal can then be changed easily by just pulling the old seal out with a pick and replacing but the usual problem is a wear line on the half shaft where the seal sits. I have been searching my computer today for a link to the sleeves that Richard mentioned and I cant find it but hopefully Viv may pick this one up because I think he was the one to flag them up.

Stuart

[Rhodri]

Hi Stuart- try Googling Speedi-Sleeve.

 

Rod

[stuart]

Hi Stuart- try Googling Speedi-Sleeve.

 

Rod

 

Excellent, well done Rod.

Stuart.

[greasybuildup]

Wow, thanks for all the replies guys! The speedi-sleeve sounds like the solution I'll likely be using. Too bad I already rebuilt the brakes on the other side as it sounds like I should probably just do this to both sides while I'm at it.

Just to clarify though; the hub does not need to be pulled from the half-shaft unless I'm replacing the outer seal and/or bearings, so I can just pull the whole hub/bearing housing/halfshaft right out in one shot, eh? I assume that the halfshaft is just splined into its diff gear so no mucking about in the diff housing is required. If this is true then this all sounds easier than I had envisioned. Its good to talk to other people because that brown bible sure doesn't like to give you the shortcuts!

 

Also, check out this nice write-up I found at pirate4x4, should be almost the exact same process I would imagine.

Write-up

[greasybuildup]

Also, to those of you that have done this already, do you know what the proper ID and length of the sleeve is? I'd like to get one or two on order here at work ASAP.

[Smokey]

That'a great link. I used a Speedi-Sleeve on the output drive flange in my overdrive, which was still leaking oil after instlling a new oil seal. This should be standard procedure on any od or gearbox rebuild, something I suggested to Quantumechanics, who had rebuilt the overdrive.

[Richardtr3a]

I have been away for a few days and i have come back to find interest in my Speedi Sleeve. The part number for a Girling 3A half shaft is CR 99131 and although I have a spare in a box I can not access the files and find out where it came from. I remember an engineering suppliers in the Midlands. It is an SKF product and was made in the USA. It workes like a dream and all my leaking axle problems have gone away.

The next issue is brake shoes. If I follow the book and back off the adjuster 2 clicks the handbrake is useless. If I only back off one click the handbrake is fine but the drumm gets hot even if you do not use the brakes on a 4 mile run up the road. Currently I am not using the handbrake much and the MOT is coming up.

[stuart]

 

The next issue is brake shoes. If I follow the book and back off the adjuster 2 clicks the handbrake is useless. If I only back off one click the handbrake is fine but the drumm gets hot even if you do not use the brakes on a 4 mile run up the road. Currently I am not using the handbrake much and the MOT is coming up.

 

Richard I thought you had sorted that problem out ages ago.

Stuart

[Richardtr3a]

I have Stuart, but not using the handbrake is not a satisfactory answer. I am trying some genuine ST brake shoes which are a bit worn next.

Have you any ideas. I hope that you were impressed with the provision of the part number after 4 years.

Thanks Richard

[david ferry]

Richard,

 

Are your drums round?

 

If not, that could explain the drums getting hot.

 

Regards

 

David

[stuart]

I assume you have adjusted all the cables correctly and the cylinders slide in the back plate OK as even being 3 or 4 clicks out a 2/3/4 handbrake will normally perform perfectly adequately.

Stuart

[greasybuildup]

I got the half-shaft out yesterday and to my delight, the sealing surface was in very good shape. I decided to just polish it up a bit with some 0000 steel wool and fit a new seal (the old one was very hard but not damaged either). I'm sure a fresh batch of bearing grease will also help very much. I think that the old grease was very, well, old and was breaking down a bit and getting runny with the gear oil contamination. Also removed all rust from the shims and will clean up the brake plate (as that's where the stuff was actually leaking from) and hope that the problem is solved. Waiting on the seals right now, I'll let you know how it works out!

[Richardtr3a]

While you have gone this far carry on and fit the speedi sleeve which will cure your leaking problems for the rest of your life. If only other problems could be solved in such an easy way. They are even made in the USA for SKF. You are duty bound as a patriot to buy and fit. You have the part number.

[Richardtr3a]

Richard,

 

Are your drums round?

 

If not, that could explain the drums getting hot.

 

Regards

 

David

 

I seem to have less time as I get older. When I was young I was always working on the 3A and now the brakes have been a problem for years. I will try and strip down this week end and check for ovality. Thanks Richard

[Richardtr3a]

I assume you have adjusted all the cables correctly and the cylinders slide in the back plate OK as even being 3 or 4 clicks out a 2/3/4 handbrake will normally perform perfectly adequately.

Stuart

 

I think so but should there be any drag when the handbrake is off or should the drum revolve without any interference. My cables are adjusted so that the drum is free from drag.

What do you think. Richard

[stuart]

I think so but should there be any drag when the handbrake is off or should the drum revolve without any interference. My cables are adjusted so that the drum is free from drag.

What do you think. Richard

 

Standard set up is to remove the clevis pins from the cylinder arms then adjust the drums up so they are just not dragging then adjust the cables (with handbrake lever right forward i.e. off)Primary first so there is virtually no slack with the compensator lever on the axle at right angles then adjust the axle cables so that it is just possible to insert the clevis pins into the cylinder levers just before they are starting to act against the shoes. That way there will be no drag with the brakes off but travel on the lever will be minimal to achieve a good handbrake, after all the handbrake on a 2/3/4 should be capable of skidding the back wheels unlike the later IRS ones which are marginal by comparison.

Stuart

[Smokey]

With only a single hydraulic circuit in the braking system, the handbrake is also called an emergency brake - for good reason. So it's always a good idea to have it working properly on a TR4.

[Richardtr3a]

Standard set up is to remove the clevis pins from the cylinder arms then adjust the drums up so they are just not dragging then adjust the cables (with handbrake lever right forward i.e. off)Primary first so there is virtually no slack with the compensator lever on the axle at right angles then adjust the axle cables so that it is just possible to insert the clevis pins into the cylinder levers just before they are starting to act against the shoes. That way there will be no drag with the brakes off but travel on the lever will be minimal to achieve a good handbrake, after all the handbrake on a 2/3/4 should be capable of skidding the back wheels unlike the later IRS ones which are marginal by comparison.

Stuart

 

Exactly what I did and there is no handbrake. I will have to try again perhaps this weekend. Than you very much for the advice.