niallcarroll19 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 (edited) Hi all. New member here. I have a 1970 TR6. I recently replaced the (fuel pump)- {Not the pump. It was the MU that was replaced, Sorry } and since then the car has been hard to start and running very badly. It cuts out a lot from cold. Once it warms up it will tick over but, again, poorly. It had been sitting up for a while with suspension problems before the MU was fitted. Can anyone shed some light on my problem Might there be an adjustment needed in the MU itself? Any help at all please Edited October 23, 2008 by niallcarroll19 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianhoward Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Hi Niall Welcome to the forum! Is your car a PI model? If so, and you have fitted a new pump (presumably Bosch?), have you fitted the correct one as the fuel system on these cars operate at around 105psi... If all was running well prior to this, it certainly points to a problem with the new pump. Have you re-fitted your old pump to verify things? Brgds Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Crawley Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Hi & welcome to the forum. Is it a PI or running carbs? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niallcarroll19 Posted October 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Hi & welcome to the forum. Is it a PI or running carbs? It's an injection model. I don't have the old pump to test It seems to be missing on idle and all the way up through the revs. The dissy appears to be ok. I removed the plugs and they were all fouled pretty bad. I've ordered new plugs but until then I've cleaned up the old ones. When the pump was fiited the timing was at TDC but I've since seen in the owners manual that timing is done at 11 before TDC. Could this be the problem? Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
V8 Lady Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 No doubt Alec will get in on this one. If the car has been standing - DRAIN THE FUEL TANK AND START AGAIN ! We and numerous others have had a fuel problem particularly with Super Unleaded. Old stuff and new stuff does not mix. You end up with a white emulsion in the tank and the car does not like it. Along with the fact that modern fuel goes off in a matter of 2 months as well. Hence my Tr7V8 has not seen the light of day this year as we still have nort got rid of it all ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Crawley Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 It's an injection model. I don't have the old pump to test It seems to be missing on idle and all the way up through the revs. The dissy appears to be ok. I removed the plugs and they were all fouled pretty bad. I've ordered new plugs but until then I've cleaned up the old ones. When the pump was fiited the timing was at TDC but I've since seen in the owners manual that timing is done at 11 before TDC. Could this be the problem? Thanks What made you think the original pump was U/S & why did you change it? Have you checked the Fuel line pressure? What’s the history/condition of the metering unit? Have you checked the rest of the fuel & ignition system? Re timing; 11 degrees BTDC is where you should start but weather or not you can run this depends on individual motors. A TDC timing setting won’t help so try re-setting but, be aware, there can be problems with the pulley & what you see maybe not what you’re actually getting! Exactly how long has the car been laid up? Along with the fact that modern fuel goes off in a matter of 2 months as well. Hence my Tr7V8 has not seen the light of day this year as we still have nort got rid of it all ! Naah I think this is an old wives tale. I wouldn’t disagree that fuel has a limited shelf life & it may affect high performance cars more than general run of the mill stuff; where the TR sits rather depends either on ego or how much it’s actually been modified. I reakon it’s good for at least a year; I’ve only filled my car once in the last 14 months (don’t ask!) & always keep the tank over ½ full to stop the bloody Lucas pump playing up but I’ve never have any problems with either initial starting or running. Up until last year, I also had a boat running U/L petrol; it had 2 x 40 gallon internal tanks & it sometimes stood for many months (the reason why I eventually sold it) without any starting or running problems. I always kept the tanks reasonably full to prevent water condensation problems (a boat thing!) & also used to alternate between tanks; but some of the fuel would be pretty old by the time it got fried! I never had any problems with “old fuel” on the boat either & some ofit must have been sitting in tank for 12 months! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niallcarroll19 Posted October 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 What made you think the original pump was U/S & why did you change it? Have you checked the Fuel line pressure? What’s the history/condition of the metering unit? Have you checked the rest of the fuel & ignition system? Re timing; 11 degrees BTDC is where you should start but weather or not you can run this depends on individual motors. A TDC timing setting won’t help so try re-setting but, be aware, there can be problems with the pulley & what you see maybe not what you’re actually getting! Exactly how long has the car been laid up? U/S metering unit A guy I know through a friend of a friend suggested the fuel pump was seized due to being laid up for a couple of months. It was running like a clock before. I cracked each fuel line and there seems to be the same amount of fuel from each one. All the plugs were fouled. Some were full of carbon, some were wet(fuel). As far as I can see the spark is good across the six. The dissy looks to be ok. The leads are pretty new. Do the valves stick open on these? I know what you're saying about the pulley. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Crawley Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 U/S metering unit A guy I know through a friend of a friend suggested the fuel pump was seized due to being laid up for a couple of months. It was running like a clock before. I cracked each fuel line and there seems to be the same amount of fuel from each one. All the plugs were fouled. Some were full of carbon, some were wet(fuel). As far as I can see the spark is good across the six. The dissy looks to be ok. The leads are pretty new. Do the valves stick open on these? I know what you're saying about the pulley. U/S = useless! Metering unit = the thing bolted onto the side of the engine near the distributor with the pipes coming out of it that go the air intakes! It could happen but I doubt very much the pump would seize after being laid up for just a couple of months. If it the motor was running well before, I suspect it may have just needed a system bleed & a bit of TLC. It could be any number of things; air, low fuel line pressure, the odd stuck injector or faulty components; there are a number of checks that have to be done to establish what is wrong. I get the impression your not too familiar with the PI system, it’s not complicated but you do have to know what your doing to service it & I would suggest you don’t start fiddling with it until you do. Have a good read through the archive posts, download & read some literature from the links so thoughtfully provided by Steve; http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index....showtopic=16082 If you then feel you can tackle it, come back with specific questions; if not, take the car to someone who knows what they are doing or you could just end up throwing your money away. The problem could of course be nothing to do with the PI system! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niallcarroll19 Posted October 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Anyone else have any ideas Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Crawley Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Anyone else have any ideas Thanks Perhaps Merlin, the Wizard of Oz or Harry Potter will respond! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Crawley Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 We and numerous others have had a fuel problem particularly with Super Unleaded. Old stuff and new stuff does not mix. You end up with a white emulsion in the tank and the car does not like it.Along with the fact that modern fuel goes off in a matter of 2 months as well. Hence my Tr7V8 has not seen the light of day this year as we still have nort got rid of it all ! Naah I think this is an old wives tale. I thought I would post back on this as it seems there may well be a problem with some of the modern fuel octane boosters being used which, presumably, the major fuel suppliers would rather we didn’t know about. 99% of folks don’t have fuel sitting in their tanks for any length of time so, I guess, they are inclined not to regard is as a problem but apparently, it can be. My scepticism was based on previous, personal experience but it seems I may have been lucky so far! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niallcarroll19 Posted October 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Perhaps Merlin, the Wizard of Oz or Harry Potter will respond! harry potter is over rated IMO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niallcarroll19 Posted October 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Hi all. Thanks for all the input. I'm pretty sure at this stage the the fuel pump was timed wrong from fitting. I've now set up the timing correctly(I hope) The timing is set for 11BTDC and the rotor is pointing at 1 I just need help with one thing. What way does the pump get timed? It looks like it can gon on 2 different ways. Any ideas? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 (edited) Hi all. Thanks for all the input. I'm pretty sure at this stage the the fuel pump was timed wrong from fitting. I've now set up the timing correctly(I hope) The timing is set for 11BTDC and the rotor is pointing at 1I just need help with one thing. What way does the pump get timed? It looks like it can gon on 2 different ways. Any ideas? Hi Niall, Looks like you have got in correct, just line up the line on rotor to the line on the casing, fit seal between unit and pedistal and fit to pedistal. Then you need to set timing to the Mu. Remove pedistal and Mu, in one piece, having removed union on port Six (top right), insert finger into pedistal and you will feel a cog, you need to turn that till you see a half moon in the opening once you lower the pedistal back into position. This may take a few goes to get right. Also have a look at this http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index....amp;hl=pedistal http://www.lucasinjection.com/Lucas%20Mk2%...20page%2016.htm http://www.lucasinjection.com/ Probably explains it better than i have. Good Luck Guy Oh looking at your picy of dizzy, i would change your rotor arm to one of Martins at Distributer Doctor, also what is under that plastic cover, i assume its some type of electronic ignition, you sure thats ok Edited October 22, 2008 by Jersey Royal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niallcarroll19 Posted October 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Thanks for that. I'll try that tomorrow Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Crawley Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 (edited) Hi all. Thanks for all the input. I'm pretty sure at this stage the the fuel pump was timed wrong from fitting. I've now set up the timing correctly(I hope) The timing is set for 11BTDC and the rotor is pointing at 1I just need help with one thing. What way does the pump get timed? It looks like it can gon on 2 different ways. Any ideas? But that's not the pump, it's the metering unit; the pump is in the boot! Is that what you’ve been referring to all along? If you don't get the terminology correct it’s going to be rather dificult to advise you! Edited October 23, 2008 by Richard Crawley Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niallcarroll19 Posted October 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 (edited) But that's not the pump, it's the metering unit; the pump is in the boot! Is that what you’ve been referring to all along? If you don't get the terminology correct it’s going to be rather dificult to advise you! I got a manual today and have realised my mistake. Apologise for any confusion caused It was the MU that was replaced due to not injecting fuel on No.5 I have timed up the MU according to the manual. As far as I can see the timing was way off. Edited October 23, 2008 by niallcarroll19 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stallie Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 FWIW, I removed the MU to replace the injection lines over the last couple of days. Once I had everything reconnected, I tried turing the engine over in bursts until the battery went flat - which was not that long! At no stage was any fuel coming out of the injector lines. I put the battery on charge overnight and tried today. After turning the engine over for about 10 seconds it started to cough slightly. I checked the injectors and there was pressure and fuel - a couple more cranks later and it sprang sputteringly into life. There is good pulse in all the injectors too. It was almost as if leaving the lines for 12 hours assisted it to bleed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jean Posted October 27, 2008 Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 Guy, the black plate is the disk of a Lumenition Magnetronic ignition system, the 6 squares are the magnets for a 6cyl engine. I had it on my 6, works very well and is invisible, almost, when the cap is back on. I use it now on my 3, just replaced the disk by a 4 magnet item. Some advise, as the disk is about 1 mm thick it's advised to shave off 1mm from the rotor bottom, so that the finger remains in the same position in relation to the cap points. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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