67_gt6 Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 Don't want to divert this topic too much, but when examining plugs where should one look for the colour? on the ground strap? on the electrode? andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marvmul Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 The advance, when checking with the stroboscope light from idle to 5000 rpm should move some 20 degrees. If you set the static timing at 10° for instance, and ,when checking with the strobo light,you find that the advance is 25-35 already at 1000 or 1500 rpm, the springs of the advance mechanisme have weakened or are absent or too loose. The vacuum advance should be removed or disabled when checking, and is not added to get the total maximum advance. The stroboscopic light is a very very useful tool, you have to be accustomed to it, but that is not that difficult. The TDC mark should be very clear (white paint on the pulley), use the pilot light to put the stroboscoop in the right direction. Maximum total advance is arrived at about 4000°, nut much sooner. Check the advance mechanism (the weights and springs), if this is ok, I suppose you have sparks at every engine speed, but only when there is no load. It happens very often that the spark plugs seem to fire normally when the car is not moving, but under load (accelerating), a lot of sparks are missing, because the electrical resistance of the fuel air mixture is much higher then. Faults on the wiring on the plate of the distributor( where the points are mounted) can be very hard to detect : carefully look for possible bad isolation of the low tension part : isolation of the wires, plastic isolation under the spring of the points etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 Hi again Flash, I feel badly for you, as I can sense the frustration is starting to bite. This is worth nothing at all, but I'd offer to lend a hand (in a flash, dare I say), if I were just that bit closer. I always cart around a boot load of tools, and every spare part known to mankind. In fact when we go touring, dearest complains she barely gets allocated enough room to pack a G string ! All I can offer is moral support, so take your break, down a pint or three, crack a smile and come back punching. Most likely it'll be down to the long time the car sat idle. A victim of the "use it or lose it" syndrome... sadly not cured with just a panadol. Once these little setbacks are sorted, you should find the old 4 potter is quite a reliable conveyance. Best regards for now and keep the faith, Viv. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Flashart Posted May 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 Thanks again for the tips, Maybe I'll try again this weekend. Thanks Flash Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Down Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 Thanks again for the tips, Maybe I'll try again this weekend. Thanks Flash Good man! the joys of old car ownership! As your car has been out of commission for so long its possible you could have several problems. As you seem to be able start the car easily it is unlikely that your static ignition timing is too far out. I have found that if this is wildly out, you would notice serios backfiring and an inability to start. As has been mentioned definitely worth checking the action of both the advance retard weights and the vacuum advance on your distributor. As you have experienced dirty fuel problems, an in line filter is an easy short term solution to cure this but eventually you may have to remove the tank and treat it. I have experienced numerous problems with dirty fuel tanks as the debris seems to intermittently work its way to the fuel lines and block the carbs. Also worth checking the pressure delivered by the fuel pump, not easy unless you have the right equipment. I find that substituting the mechanical pump with an electric one is the quickest way to eliminate a suspect mech pump. If you could limp out to Alston (50 miles from Newcastle) I have recently acquired a Crypton tuning and set we could have a go with that. They are especially good at locating electrical problems. Keep smiling! Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Flashart Posted May 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Good man! the joys of old car ownership! As your car has been out of commission for so long its possible you could have several problems. As you seem to be able start the car easily it is unlikely that your static ignition timing is too far out. I have found that if this is wildly out, you would notice serios backfiring and an inability to start. As has been mentioned definitely worth checking the action of both the advance retard weights and the vacuum advance on your distributor. As you have experienced dirty fuel problems, an in line filter is an easy short term solution to cure this but eventually you may have to remove the tank and treat it. I have experienced numerous problems with dirty fuel tanks as the debris seems to intermittently work its way to the fuel lines and block the carbs. Also worth checking the pressure delivered by the fuel pump, not easy unless you have the right equipment. I find that substituting the mechanical pump with an electric one is the quickest way to eliminate a suspect mech pump. If you could limp out to Alston (50 miles from Newcastle) I have recently acquired a Crypton tuning and set we could have a go with that. They are especially good at locating electrical problems. Keep smiling! Paul Cheers Paul, I'll get the car running as best as I can and I might well take you up on that offer. The drive to Alson would be lots of fun!! Thanks for the pep talk. Thanks again Flash Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 A simple thought, but I don't think anyone has suggested starting the car up at night and looking for stray sparks in the engine bay. Also have you checked the points gap, if they are too closed they don't give enough time for a decent spark to build up when they open again - result is a weak spark. and any eccentricity in your distributor cam can have the same effect on one cylinder. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodri Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Are the carbs balanced? Otherwise, at tickover, one might be almost closed and it will be trying to run on one carb causing the poor idle. Take the air filters off and put a length of hose near each carb air inlet, in turn, listening at the other end of the hose- the noise should be the same, if not slacken the joint in the linkage between the two and adjust each carb seperately until they sound the same. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Flashart Posted May 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Cheers guys. I think my problem is that the carbs are balanced, but the mixture is not correct and the timing is still wrong. I think what I'm going to do is set the staic timing again and then try and set the carbs. On my previous SU carbed cars I used to wind the jets out two full turns as a start point. I'm going to try that and then try the advance until it pinks method. Any comments and advise as always is very welcome. Flash Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tony-qld Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Cheers guys. I think my problem is that the carbs are balanced, but the mixture is not correct and the timing is still wrong. I think what I'm going to do is set the staic timing again and then try and set the carbs. On my previous SU carbed cars I used to wind the jets out two full turns as a start point. I'm going to try that and then try the advance until it pinks method. Any comments and advise as always is very welcome. Flash I had problems with an erratic miss in my 4. I replaced everything electrical except the brand new HT leads which I didnt suspect because they were new. In the end I ripped out the brand new leads and replaced them with good old solid copper cored leads and all problems were solved. The problem was that the spikes that screw into the HT leads from the dizzy werent making a good contact with the silicon leads but made a good contact on the solid copper core. The only problem is radio interference from the leads but I would rather listen car noises. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Flashart Posted May 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 So the progress so far. I set the timing as per the Haynes manual, with 4 degrees of static advance. The car runs and does not pink, but the idle is still rough and it binds on the starter every so often. I think this means that it is a little to advanced? I messed around a bit and turnes the distributer anti-clockwise untill the engine ran smoothly. It was way retarded from the position that the Haynes manual said, but when using the strobe it looked like it was firing at TDC. I'd be interested if anyone knew what the advance should be at idle. Anyway, I test drove the car and it seemed Ok. There was a slight pinking when going up a steep hill. I was going to try and retard it a few degrees when I ran out of petrol! How embarrasing!! I was only about a hundred yard from home though so I pushed it back to the garage. Another entry on the list is fix the fuel guage!!! So I think that I'm getting closer. If I can find out what the advance is meant to be at idle (1000 rpm ish) I can get the timing set up with the stobe. Then I can get the carbs set up correctly. I fairly sure now that there is not much wrong, just that the carbs and the timing are incorrect and as such I'm chasing my tail a little. If I get one set the other will be soon after. I'm going to spend tomorrow playing about with it again and I'm fairly confident I'll have it drivable for Sunday. Oh and I drove the car to about 85mph tonight (on a private road of course) and it seems happier there than it did at 50!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Flashart Posted May 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 IT"S FIXED!!!!!!! Messed around again this morning and basically retarted the distributer until the engine ran smoothly. I then set the carbs up. I set the carbs by lifting the dampers using the lifting pin and it seemed ot work ok. Now all throught this two weeks if frustration lifting the pins has never made any difference. Took it for a drive and no pinking and a smooth idle. The car now drives so much better. Driving at slow speeds was a difficult affair not it'll sit at 30 in any gear and still pull away. Very nice!! Thank you all for the help, without wich I'd be still chasing my tail. If anyone is up in Newcastle drop me a line, I owe you all beer. Now to fix the fuel gauge and find out why the headlights go out when I hit a bump........ but that will be the easy bit! Thanks all Flashart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodri Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Well done- hopefully your feelings of achievment will dim the feelings of frustration you had a few days ago!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Now that you are almost there it is time to send the distributor to The Distributor Doctor and to call your local mobile tuner to come over and fit it. This will cost £200.00 and the car will run better than ever before. My distributor was ovehauled by a "specialist" and it took me nearly 18 years to send it away again and now the difference is absolutely fantastic. Proper starting, smooth running and a long life ahead. At least you know that there is nothing major causing a problem. Good luck Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Flashart Posted May 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Cheers guys, Richard, if I had 200 quid to spare I'd have sent it off weeks ago!! Having just moved countries, buying a house and my father's business from him, my play money fund is exhausted!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 It sounds as if you have a lot on. The car should be an antidote to owning a business. Good luck, Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Can you claim all these expenses as it is a company car ? ie. shipment from Canada, tune-ups, re-built distributor, etc. etc. ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Flashart Posted June 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 (edited) Can you claim all these expenses as it is a company car ? ie. shipment from Canada, tune-ups, re-built distributor, etc. etc. ? [/quote If only Don!! The car is the antidote to all the stresses of medern life. I find driving a fun car to my nearest stream and spending an hour fly fishing then a fast blast home is the best therapy in the world. I also usually enjoy tinkering with them, just got on top of me this time!! Cheers all Flash Edited June 1, 2008 by Lord Flashart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dick Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 If you find that the handling of your car is 'interesting' at 50mph there is something very wrong with it. Mine will cruise all day at any speed......usually the faster the better. A speed that it seems to like where everthing settles down and appears in harmony is 4000rpm in top overdrive. On a private track of course!!.....A policeman stopped me many years ago and politely said 'Nice car....would it be possible for it to go a little slower our Granada was struggling to catch up'. I also don't get shuttle shake which I know plagues some cars. My car is by no means perfect but goes, steers and stops well. Even in average condition these cars are vice-less. (wet roads excluded). They are simple in design and are made out of robust components that had years of testing in other Triumph cars (Renowns, Mayflowers, Vangards, Roadsters, Fergy. Tractors etc before someone had the idea of re-configuring the components to make a TR. And even in TR form apart from disc brakes and a change of rear axle not much changed in the nearly 10 years of side screen production run, which must be a testimony to having 'got it right'. Get it sorted and it will be a pleasure to drive. Regards Dick. Hi Frank, My car is a 59 TR3a. I have owned it since 1973 and it now coming up to 300,000 miles. Over the years on the body I have replaced all 4 wings,the quarter panels,the rear panel, both door skins and the outer sills. The engine has a fast road cam and is overbored to 87mm with forged pistons, The flywheel and crankshaft are lightened and balanced...in fact the flywheel is from a TR2 which is lighter anyway....the valve caps are aluminium and there are fitted stronger springs. The compression ratio is 9.5:1. 1.75 SUs with richer needles manage the carburation. An alternator is fitted instead of the original generator to drive the electric cooling fan and the uprated headlamps. Modern high torque starter motor fitted. Brakes are standard apart from a vacuum servo fitted. All suspension bushes changed to poly. and competition front springs and slightly stiffer rear springs fitted with standard shockers. Wire wheels with 165 section tyres. The car is easily able to offend the Constabulary is very reiable....should not have said that.....pleasant to drive,does not overheat,shake or rattle. The handling is neutral and the car if provoked sufficiently will four wheel drift and steer on the throttle. It is not concours nor will ever be. Every year I always plan a maintenance project.....last years was new rear wheel cylinders, previous was overhall the steering box, next year will be a new clutch. What I try to do is replace before catastrophic failure. Hope this helps, Regards Dick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest colinTR2 Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 Flash As a final check there are normally 3 mobile tuning vans at Malvern for the International. I had my 2 tuned a couple of years ago, excellent. They are not in a hurry, are sympathetic to TRs, even the 4-pot, and go through everything very thoroughly and if I remember rightly the cost was £45. Mine ran so much better and consumption went from below 27-28mpg up to 32! If anything needs replacing then it will normally be available from traders in the halls.You might consider this if you are proposing a visit to TRI. Colin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Flashart Posted June 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 Cheers mate, Not going to make it to any shows this year. To busy with the business. I got the car running much better. I just turned the dissy until the car ran smoothly and then fine tuned so there was no pinking. After a couple of spirited blasts I checked the spark plugs and adjusted the mixture to obtain a nice brown colour. Car now pulls like a steam train and is back putting a smile on my face! The static timing is no-where near where the Haynes manual said. Cheers Flash Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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