kiwi-jim Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 while my chassis is being attended to, I am now looking at the steering side of my car. It is a long column car and the steering was all removed when I picked up the car so I have no idea what it felt like or how well it worked. I am replacing all the inner and outer ball joints as well as the bush and pins as a matter of course now i'm looking at the steering box, is there any way with it off the car you can determine its condition, either by a test of some form or visually Also in Roger williams restoration book, he dosn't recommend the home restorer taking the steering box apart to restore, WHY???? it dosn't look that complicated, or is there a problem with removing or replacing the internal ball races etc that I havn't realised. His recommendation is to buy a restored one we don't have that luxury unfortunately. finally what else will need attention? I'm thinking of looking at one of revingtons top covers, Does anyone know whether there is an uprated idler/trunnion type bracket available and is it worth it. Thanks for your thoughts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 while my chassis is being attended to, I am now looking at the steering side of my car. It is a long column car and the steering was all removed when I picked up the car so I have no idea what it felt like or how well it worked. I am replacing all the inner and outer ball joints as well as the bush and pins as a matter of course now i'm looking at the steering box, is there any way with it off the car you can determine its condition, either by a test of some form or visually Also in Roger williams restoration book, he dosn't recommend the home restorer taking the steering box apart to restore, WHY???? it dosn't look that complicated, or is there a problem with removing or replacing the internal ball races etc that I havn't realised. His recommendation is to buy a restored one we don't have that luxury unfortunately. finally what else will need attention? I'm thinking of looking at one of revingtons top covers, Does anyone know whether there is an uprated idler/trunnion type bracket available and is it worth it. Thanks for your thoughts. Hi Jim There is no real mystery about the steering box it is fairly easy to replace the bearings and the shims on the end plate are available. The usual problem with these boxes is the wear in the pin on the rocker shaft and wear around the centre point on the worm, also wear on the top cover plate, this can be refaced . The pin is easily pressed out and replaced and worms are also available although it takes a competent engineering shop to replace. You may also need a new bush for the rocker shaft, easily pressed in and an oil seal below it . Not sure about Revingtons sprung loaded top cover which is supposed to take up some of the wear. You will also need to replace the felt bush in the top of the column and the anti rattle rings that sit part way up the tube. Up rated idlers are also available with an internal bush instead of the thread but i think that you can also still get new standard ones. You have my Email address if you need any more info. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 Jim - I took mine apart long before that book was written. It's not a problem. My steering was loose. It started at about 50,000 miles from new. At 80,350, during my restoration, I took it apart. All the tiny balls fell out so be careful not to lose any. I put it back in the way it was. When I drove it after the restoration, the steering was loose as before. If you crank down on the adjusting peg, that will remove the looseness, but the problem is that as you get closer to the extre right or left lock, the steering will get so tight (heavy) it may jam there and no-one wants to round and round in a circle in the middle of a Motorway. What happens is most of the driving takes place at the dead ahead position and a bit to the right and to the left of center when you are making small corrections. This wears the worm just there. So if you tighten down the adjuster for straight ahead, it gets too tight where the worm is not worn. With this condition, you are driving straight ahead on a straight road and the car seems to be ever so slowly driving towards the ditch. So you make a minor correction and nothing happens. So you add a bit more correction till it straightens out. Then you find that you're steering towards the center line, so you correct the other way, again till you get it to steer straight, but it wanders towards the ditch again. That's what I call "looseness". A long trip is such a problem. And tight roads are dangerous. This was with bias ply tyres. Also check that the peg which engages to worm is not worn as shown in this photo sent to my by Wim in Europe. I suggest you clean up your steering box and check that it's OK just as it is. Don't tighten down too much on the peg, or you will bend the top cover and it will leak oil through the gap where you have bent it. Check that yours is flat. You can lap it or file it flat before you seal it back into place. Then drive the car and see if it "wanders" as above. I drove it this way until 1995 at 100,225 miles, when I bought an adjustable peg kit from Protek in Wallingford UK, installed it and it has steered like new since then driving 74,000 miles with only one re-adjustment about 1996. I now feel safe driving at 75 MPH without any problems and when I arrive, I don't feel that I have struggled to get there. I used to have sore shoulders for days after a long trip. In fact in June 2004, I drove home from the TRA National Event in Springfield Ohio (792 miles) and I was home by 8:15 in the evening. I assume that the Revington unit must be similar. The way this works is that the outer screw for the peg is larger than the original and inside this outer screw it is hollowed out with a helical compression spring in it so that the part which engages in the groove in the worm will be tight where the worm is worn, but further out nearer the extremes, the spring allows the peg in the worm to be compressed back and it doesn't become tight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnotte Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 Hello Don, I didn't know that this spring loaded upgrade was so efficient, thank you to let us know. Having a look at the Revington site you have 3 pictures showing how it is made and to me it doesn't look too difficult to make one by yourself so sparing £50. regards, Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 Guy - My neighbour has a lathe and he made all the parts for this for the TR3A of a local club member from my sketches and photos. It is easier to install in a TR3A with the wide grille opening, but I would imagine TR2 and TR3 owners might have to remove the whole front valance for proper access. Don 58tr3a at videotron dot ca Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marvmul Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 Very interesting and useful replies : the forum at its best again! Some people are complaining about the heavy steering. Is it because of the steering box, or the upright's, or an addition of all the steering components? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel Lay Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 Just to add my thoughts, I wonder if the so called 'heavy steering' syndrome is partly because we now have got so used to rack & pinion + power steering on virtually everything we drive. I dismantled the box on TS952, cleaned out all the gunge, adjusted the shims as per the book and put it back together. The only thing I do have in it is Penrite steering lube but even that I wonder if it is a bit of a 'gimmick'. Radials must make it a bit heavier at low speed but on the move I have no qualms at all with the way the car steers and handles. If I run into problems in the future I will initially go down the adjustable peg route. The box on my car is the original (52 years old) so they must be pretty robust. Please though can we do something about the weather, I got soaked this morning while waiting in the traffic while going to the shop. One day soon I suppose I must put the hood up Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 (edited) Nigel - My TR3A steering is very heavy when parking in a tight spot or while trying to get out. But then I always pick a parking spot in a car park at the far end of the lot where I can drive in and take the open spot ahead so I can drive straight out, without needing to back up. I think a lot of complaints are from people you may have just bought their TR and they feel that something is wrong. These new owners are relating their judgement to their modern car as you wrote. My steering box is all original (48 years) except for the adjustable peg. Don Elliott, Montreal Edited November 19, 2006 by Don Elliott Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kiwi-jim Posted November 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 thanks guys the information is great, once i've taken the box apart i'll let you know how we get on. unfortunately it will still be awhile before i can ever fully try the steering out on a mobile car. Cheers and thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Yankee TR Posted December 2, 2006 Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 Here's a good "how-to" on steering box rebuilding. http://www.macysgarage.com/myweb6/steering_box.htm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kiwi-jim Posted December 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2006 Yankee tr thanks for posting the link to the macys garage site their restoration of the steering box is exactly what I want to see. So far I have stripped mine and found the peg is showing signs of wear so I have ordered another along with new gaskets, races and bearings.etc. Im now waiting for those parts before I can look to put it all back together. Great site well worth visitng thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Yankee TR Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Yankee tr thanks for posting the link to the macys garage site their restoration of the steering box is exactly what I want to see. So far I have stripped mine and found the peg is showing signs of wear so I have ordered another along with new gaskets, races and bearings.etc. Im now waiting for those parts before I can look to put it all back together. Great site well worth visitng thanks Kiwi-Jim, I think that Mark Macy did a good job with that steering box tech piece. Those boxes are always kind of "mystical" to most folks but his photos and detailed descriptions make it easy for all of us to do that job. I'm glad I could share that with you. Rick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kiwi-jim Posted December 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Rick Absolutely its a site worth visiting, I have bookmarked the website and have sent him an email to price a couple of things, hopefully he'll eventually put up more techo bits like that in the future. once I get my steering suspension and chassis back together I'll be tackling the diff and axle, so if you know a similar site that shows the overhaul of a rear axle i'd love to see it Cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnotte Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Hi all, I agree with you the Mark Macy site is excellent, the only missing topic is the replacement of the worm, and you can complete the doc with the post I submitted last year (search in the TR2/3/3A forum after worm fitting) the very good answer I got from Les will complete the gap. regards, Guy . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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