Bald Rick Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 As I'm now a TR6 owner I decided I would give it a much needed service. As I rebuilt a few Vitesses in a past life I didn't anticipate any problems even though it's been at least 20 years since I used any spanners in anger. I was actually looking forward to it. Apart from a few aches and pains everything went OK (with the service) including fitting a re-cored radiator. However, when I tried to get the oil pressure up by spinning the engine over sans plugs. Nothing, not a bloody thing. I tried several times to no avail. The car has been fitted with a spin off oil filter, not sure if that could have any effect, but I imagine I now need to prime the pump. The question is where from? Oil pressure releif valve? Oil pressure gauge feed? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated (apart from throw it away and buy a model areoplane!) Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonlar Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 Hi Tony, was the spin-on oil filter conversion fitted at the time of this oil change, or was it working OK before the change? It took me several 20 second bursts (without plugs) to start getting any pressure on ours (not been started for a couple of years). If you want to play untra safe take off filter cannister and see if it's starting to fill with oil, rub a little engine oil around the rubber seal to get it to seal thoroughly (I've always used a bit of LM grease, but on the cannisters it says use oil....?). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Crawley Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 HI Tony I also have a spin on filter + oil cooler & I’ve found it does take a while to bled air locks from the system & build up pressure again after an oil change. Have you done any other work on the engine or changed the oil pump? If not, the pump should not need priming! I would give the starter a good churning again as this should bring up a pressure eventually; try continual, 20 second bursts (plugs out) as jonlar suggests but give the starter motor windings a 5 minute cool down period after, say, 15 bursts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 The car has been fitted with a spin off oil filter, not sure if that could have any effect, but I imagine I now need to prime the pump. The question is where from? Oil pressure releif valve? Oil pressure gauge feed? Tony Via the oil PRV - undo the nut - pull out the PRV & squirt some oil down there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bald Rick Posted February 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 Hi guys, thanks for that Jon - the oil filter conversion was on the car when I bought it. A hell of a lot of oil came out of the spin off filter when I took it off. Far more than I expected. Oil pressure was very good before the oil change. Richard - I have done no other work on the engine or oil pump. Andy - hopefully I'll be able to do that without making a mess all over the drive! If the pump is slow to push the oil round I might try removing the cannister and filling it with oil as much as I can. Lets hope it doesn't rain tomorrow Many thanks Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonlar Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 Hi again Tony, is an oil cooler fitted, as Richard says this takes a lot of oil, and you're best off with the cooler with thermostatic valve to allow proper temperature to be reached quickly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Red 6 Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 Did you fill the new oil filter with fresh oil before refitting it? I think this might be part of the problem, Keep turning the engine over, if there was pressure before there will be pressure again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bald Rick Posted February 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Jon, Richard, Andy & Red 6 many thanks. I took off the oil filter and filled it with oil I also removed the Oil Pressure Relief Vale and pumped a load of oil in there and, after about 30 seconds turning over with out plugs, I got oil pressure hooray! This service is the first time I have done anything to this car other than drive it since I bought it in October. So having got oil pressure I reset the timing, checked dwell angle, adjusted and balanced the carbs and took it out. It was great, like a different car, quicker and more responsive. Unfortunately as it warmed up it seemed to develop a very noisy tappet. Driving it back the tappet got noisier to the point where I think it may be a little end! Oil pressure it not what it was before I changed the oils and filter (no, I haven't left out any bits of the relief valve). When I changed the oil, the oil that came out was very black & thick and the lovely clean 20/50 that went in was thinner even when cold. I'm beginning to think the old oil had been laced with molyslip or wynns or something similar. So I guess it's out with some of the oil and in with a couple of tins of STP while I look for a short engine to rebuild. I was planning to do that eventually to go with the nice stage two head I've got, but I wasn't planning it yet as I wanted to replace the sloppy diff first. Ah well, I bought it 'cos I wanted something to do in my spare time Thanks again folks Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Fremont Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Perhaps tangent to this discussion is the state of new oil pumps today: I found the clearances between the rotor and vane to be outside the specified tolerance range of 0.001" - 0.004" on (2) examples recently - both were measured at 0.005". By intermixing parts from an assortment of pumps I was delighted to come up with a set with a clearance of 0.0015". The day I installed this one the roads were salted to within an inch of their lives, and I was only able to run the engine in the garage, insufficient to get the oil hot hot hot - so a report on its effect on pressure will follow later. Meanwhile I won a rotor and vane set on ebay which just arrived. Its clearance: 0.003" therefore within spec. I noticed it had a different look than those of recent vintage. I suspect it may have come from the era of good pumps... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonlar Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Hi again Tony, it's got to be worth a shot, take rocker cover off, check clearances and also for play/wear on the rockers and the rocker shaft, before deciding to go for a re-con. short. It is possible to remove pistons and con-rods form the top with engine in situ, once head and sump are off - fiddly but possible. If you do need major work, get an exchange Stage 3 head which for U/L, crank, pistons, con-rods, flywheel and clutch etc. dynamically balanced, mark relative positions in case parts ae removed, so they can be replaced in exactly the same position without messing up the balance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bald Rick Posted February 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Hi Jonlar I will give that a try, hopefully sometime this week. Now that I've discovered that the clunk is coming from the diff and not its mountings I had planned to go to Stoneleigh in it this weekend, but since the knock developed in the engine I will probably go in the old Volvo. With regard to rebuilds in situ, I wish I had a pound for every time I've been under a car struggling to get the pistons and conrods out pushing them up round the crankshaft in the freezing cold or pouring rain. In the Early 70's I borrowed an engine stand to rebuild an engine. It was great, you could spin the engine round, move it up and down and lock it at any angle. I always swore I would never rebuild an engine again without one. I heartily commend them to everyone. I still plan to rebuild an engine and gearbox first and hire a crane to swap them over a weekend. I'll let you know how I get on. Doubtless I'll need a fair bit of help and advice! Many thanks Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CP62 Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Tony, If you still haven't found the source of your knock after Jonlar's good advice, a less obvious cause might be a cam sprocket bolt. I had a persistent (fairly heavy) tapping/knocking noise a few years back that appeared suddenly, and in the end it turned out that one of the small bolts that secure the cam sprocket to the cam had failed, and the sprocket was wobbling! Alarming but in the end easily fixed ... All the best, CP62 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Crawley Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 take rocker cover off, check clearances and also for play/wear on the rockers and the rocker shaft, before deciding to go for a re-con. short. Tony I would also take a good look at the valves/springs, making sure all is as it should be & all the collets are all still properly located. I would be a bit concerned that the noise appeared so suddenly, small end bushes on the 6 are bronze & are virtually bullet proof so I would be very surprised for such a knock to develop so quickly. I would be very wary of running the engine further until you can establish where the noise is coming from; it only takes a split second for something that is just hanging on to let go & destroy the engine! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Fremont Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 Perhaps tangent to this discussion is the state of new oil pumps today: I found the clearances between the rotor and vane to be outside the specified tolerance range of 0.001" - 0.004" on (2) examples recently - both were measured at 0.005". By intermixing parts from an assortment of pumps I was delighted to come up with a set with a clearance of 0.0015". The day I installed this one the roads were salted to within an inch of their lives, and I was only able to run the engine in the garage, insufficient to get the oil hot hot hot - so a report on its effect on pressure will follow later. Meanwhile I won a rotor and vane set on ebay which just arrived. Its clearance: 0.003" therefore within spec. I noticed it had a different look than those of recent vintage. I suspect it may have come from the era of good pumps... The results are in ( drum roll, please ): 5-7 psi improvement, conservatively, using a pump with clearances at the tight end of the tolerance range versus the loose end ( the loose end being where pumps of recent vintage measure, in my experience ). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 As with most "new" replacement parts for our TRs, you have to work with what you get to make them fit, etc. In the case of oil pumps, you have to lap the lower face to get the right clearance. Don Elliott, 1958 TR3A Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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