rear wheel bearing

[Peter Douglas Winn]

I tried to get an answer in the TR6 forum with limited success. So I am now trying in a wider platform.

 

Last sommer at the Italian Euro meeting. My rear wheel bearing had play. So on the way home I stopped at a garage to have it checked. Result was they said there is nothing wrong you can drive home safely. Which I thought was odd but I drove home and had no problem. Then I forgot about it and since then no further problems. A few days ago at our national meeting it went loose again. I told my friend and here came the answer. "Oh Peter, I had that and after it cooled down over night, the play had vanished. Don't worry just take it easy in the curves, there is no problem on the straight"

Which was exactly the case. I now have had it repaired. Can anybody explain this curiousity? If the bearing is loose how does it tighten up for 9 months and go loose again?

My bearings are bog standard. The interesting point is my car is a TR6 and my friends a TR4. I did shake the wheel with quite an amount of force, that's how I confirmed my doubts the first time. The second time it was the noise that made me wonder what the hell has gone wrong.

On the straight with 80 Mph there was no poblem. So as he said it seems to be the curves, not even potholed roads caused a problem. :unsure:

[Waldi]

Peter,

Did you open up de old hub and inspect the bearings or still have them?

Waldi

[Motorsport Mickey]

The TR 4 ( live axle not IRS) hub bearings are different from the TR6 you can't compare. The IRS cars have a collapsible element within them which is supposed to be a single tighten, if you go too far and reset the end float of the bearing is compromised, I've heard they can be " nipped up" a small amount if the bearings exhibit too much play.

 

Mick Richards

[Peter Douglas Winn]

The garage did the bearing so I havr no idea what it was like.

 

We must assume that by driving in the curves we are generating heat and loading on the bearings. So if heat is the problem what is happening inside the back bearing? My bearing had had a lot of miles on the clock.

 

The TR4 IRS new bearing was put together by specialist (many years experience in building back end parts). He does not tighten the crushable washer according to the book values, he does it according to his feelings. Which seems to be much more accurate. Nomally his bearings are somewhat tighter than the book values, which in any case are very hard to measure. After this there was no TR4 problems anymore.

[Motorsport Mickey]

Are the hubs original/refurbished/ or new ?

 

Original hubs are likely completely shot by now and getting towards dangerous, refurbished hubs have mostly had enormous forces applied to them to strip them down which can often weaken them and there is a strong likelihood of failure. New hubs have been designed with bigger stub axles and a better design which gets away from most of these problems but there have been a couple of instances reported where an internal diameter has been machined too large and in use allowed a bearing to move. On a scale of which of these units would be preferable to fit the new hubs win by a country mile, 50 or 60 years of use is not to be underestimated, any problem on a new hub with a wrongly engineered dimension can be sorted by the return of units and replaced under warranty.

 

You say the garage did the bearing, have you any way of checking it yourself or a different garage to check the fitments of the first ? Can you check the 6 very small nuts on 5/16 studs which hold the rear hub on the backplate ? They only need tightening to 14 lb ft each ( not very much, easily tightened by hand) and if stripped or not tightened will allow tilting in the hub.

 

Mick Richards

Edited June 16, 2017 by Motorsport Mickey

[Peter Douglas Winn]

To tell the truth I did not know there were new hubs on the market The hubs that were in, were bought from a part supplier who stocks Moss parts. So I do not know if they were new or redone. They were about 20 years old.

[Motorsport Mickey]

I should try the search box, try " rear hubs failure" or different derivatives of that, it will give you an insight. If the parts were bought 20 years ago I'd suspect they were reconditioned units. On the Stag forum ( same hubs ) there are reports of reconditioned units failing, one individual had a pair of recon hubs and both broke ( fractured the hub itself) within a 12 month period. I have posted some pictures of the results previously and you may see them on the threads, I can't repost the pictures at the moment without access.

 

[url="http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/61039-bastuck-hubs/page-2?hl=+rear%20+hubs, just found it on the search box, try this thread read it all.

 

 

Owners who are on original or reconditioned hubs need to consider that when they go bad things can happen, you tend to be applying side forces in a corner and inversion of car has happened and is a possibility.

 

Mick Richards

Edited June 16, 2017 by Motorsport Mickey

[Rob Salisbury]

Workshop manual values for the bearing end float (checked with a DTI) are between 4 and 2 thou', go less than 2 thou' and you must replace the collapsible spacer.

This has been my experience, approaching 4 thou' you can detect rock with the wheel fitted.

Cheers Rob

[Peter Douglas Winn]

Rob this is basically what the garage man was saying. The actual value is not so important. More important is the manufacturing tolerance and the play that results from these tolerances..

The link was very ineteresting. I think I had a set of recon hubs.

I still cannot work our why 9 months piece and quite then they raised their ugly head again.

[Rob Salisbury]

Hi Peter, the new bearings seem to settle a bit in use (maybe the outer races haven't completely bedded in their correct positions), add a bit of heat from running and braking and you get the loose hub bit, which is why I reckon you can open up the big lock nut and backing nut and remove the excess end float, just don't go below 2 thou, the bearings will very quickly overheat and break up.

Cheers Rob

[Peter Douglas Winn]

Rob great but why did they go tight again on 2 different cars?

[Rob Salisbury]

Maybe they were on the edge of correct end float, so heat from use plus the higher summer temperatures was enough to make them loose, and then go tight again on cooling, as has been discussed earlier in this thread these hubs are now 50 or more years old, and some may have been "re-conditioned" more than once, so it may be time they were pensioned off!! .... I can remember getting my first set of hubs rebuilt by Stanmore Motors in Honeypot Lane, Stanmore around 1972, so at the time they were just 7 years old!!

Cheers Rob

[Peter Douglas Winn]

Ok I must take it for that. By the way, I can remember that firm they had been there for years In 65 they did my Herald drive shafts. The weak ones that always broke when you booted it round a corner.when the traffic lights went green.