foster461 Posted July 3, 2005 Report Share Posted July 3, 2005 Planning ahead for next year I'm accumulating parts for a front end overhaul. I think I read somewhere that it is possible and even desirable to just disconnect the upper and lower arms at the chassis end and then take the whole assembly over to the bench for cleaning and refurb. I imagine the shock and spring will need to be removed first... I wonder if anyone has done it this way and can recommend this procedure over dismantling it in situ ? Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonlar Posted July 3, 2005 Report Share Posted July 3, 2005 Hi Stan. I think I'd make sure everything was loosened up before taking it to the bench, whilst it's on the car, you've got something to work against. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ron Posted July 3, 2005 Report Share Posted July 3, 2005 Stan Don't see any great advantage in doing it that way and as Jon says when it's in situ you have something to work against. It's also worth while doing one side at a time to avoid mixing parts that are handed. Assuming nothing is seized solid it is an easy suspension to overhaul anyway. Only problem I had was renewing the stub axles, one came off the taper easily but the other needed an acetelyne torch and a BIG hammer, don't even know if it was all that necessary but I felt they looked rather light for the weight of the car plus they were 30 years old. Ron Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonlar Posted July 3, 2005 Report Share Posted July 3, 2005 It's also worth while doing one side at a time to avoid mixing parts that are handed. That's a good point Ron, I suppose you could stamp Ls and Rs on the parts to distinguish between? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Crawley Posted July 3, 2005 Report Share Posted July 3, 2005 Stan To reiterate comments already made, I also don’t really see any advantage in doing it that way & there could be positive disadvantages; it is a fairly easy suspension assembly to dismantle & even after many years there are generally no nasty surprises. I assume you will be going for Poly bushes? I wish I had during my resto but I will eventually fit these, after I have got some decent use & at least another MOT out of the standard rubber. I will probably go for the softer ‘road’ bushes which are supposed to give a similar ride to the standard rubber as I think the standard suspension with gas shocks is already firm enough for general road use; even amalgam fillings are expensive these days! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted July 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 I assume you will be going for Poly bushes? yes, urethane bushes front and back, new ball joints and trunnions, Richard Good's adjustable brackets on the rear, uprated but standard length springs front and rear, koni shocks on the front. I was not planning on putting telescopic on the rear..... refurb the calipers with stainless pistons, repaint everything and check all the brackets and mounting areas. Thats the theory so far anyway, still waiting for parts to trickle in. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Crawley Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 I was not planning on putting telescopic on the rear..... Stan why ever not; I think this mod gives the biggest single improvement in both ride & handling. I went for Spax all round as they are adjustable on the car; so far have been very pleased with them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ron Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Stan I'll second that, if I was only going to make one improvement to the suspension a rear shocker conversion would be 1st choice! I've got poly bushes all round, I found them a bit harsh to begin with but either they've bedded in or I've got used to them as they're OK now except on poor road surfaces. Ron Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted July 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Regarding the rear shocks.. Ive just been getting mixed opinions on this conversion, mostly regarding whether it really makes any difference compared to rebuilt and uprated levers and whether they hold up over time without cracking the frame near the mounting points etc. Is there a particular variant that people have found to work well ?. I'm not philosophically opposed to doing it and it is not an expensive or tricky job to do. Ditto regarding a rear anti-roll bar, also not currently in the plan.. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chrismitchell Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 It makes a massive difference to both ride comfort and handling and only takes about 15 mins per side. My understanding is that the lever arms are the same stiffness on bounce and rebound. Whereas modern gas telescopics have different ratings in each direction, and different responses to rate of change. So the wheel is kept more firmly on the ground and is less likely to hit the bump stop. Yes it does put more stress on the mountings. You should look for a 3-point mounting which takes advantage of the redundant lower bump stop as well as the 2 points already used by the lever arm shocker. These were originally produced by TRBitz about 12 years ago but various firms are doing them now. Good game, Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted July 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 I did some research this morning and found 4 basic designs for rear shock tube conversion. Style number 1 is the so called easy bolt on version with just the two bolt mounting via the standard shock mounting holes. These sell for around $180 a pair with KYB shocks. Example: http://www.geocities.com/johnehorton/ Style number 2 is the Herman van den Akker derivatives. These also seem to use the standard mounting holes but have a different bracket design. These sell for arond $140.00 minus shocks. Example: http://www.blindmoosefab.com/rear_shock.htm Style number 3 is sold by Moss in the US and The Roadster Factory. This type does require some drilling of the boot and inner wing and/or wheel arch I think. Example: http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProduct...teIndexID=29873 Syle number 4 the Revington coil over tube, cost slightly north of $530.00. Needs some welding but does not penetrate the body. Example: http://tinyurl.com/buux5 I have seen references to a kit sold by CTM but I cant find any pictures so I dont know if it similar to one of the above or if it is a new design. Biggest problem I have seen in my reading this morning is weak frames cracking due to the extra stress of this conversion. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chrismitchell Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Hi Stan, I would not fancy any of those (welding, drilling). From memory I think the CTM design is similar to the TR Bitz one, certainly the website says its 3 bolt fitting, but no photo. You are right about frame loading, and the 3 bolt design is very strong. If you cannot find a photo I will go and remove a wheel and get a shot for you. Mine came from TR Bitz about 10 years ago and have been well hammered in Cheshire and France, no problems. Both TRBitz & CTM usually go to Malvern so if you are going you should be able to examine there. Good luck Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted July 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Just checked Roger Williams "how to improve..." book and he shows the Racetorations, TRbitz and CTM designs which look similar. The Racetorations brackets are made of some kind of lightweight alloy, unclear what the others are made of. Here's an example of this style: http://www.racetorations.co.uk/hubsetc/pag...oyarm_tele.html I like this design better than the simpler bolt on brackets in style number 1 in my earlier post. These have a more substantial structure while retaining the bolt on conveniance. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Crawley Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Ive just been getting mixed opinions on this conversion, mostly regarding whether it really makes any difference compared to rebuilt and uprated levers and whether they hold up over time without cracking the frame near the mounting points etc. Stan It does make a massive difference to both ride & handling; just getting rid of that undignified & annoying rear end squat with the accompanying ‘nose in the air’ stance is reason enough. Not heard any reports of cracking the frame mounting points, does anyone know of any? I wouldn’t bother with the rear anti-roll bar on a road car, personally I think it’s a bit of overkill & can’t see it justifies the expense. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ron Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Stan I originally fitted the type of bracket that bolts onto the two mounting holes where the lever arm shocker was [similar to the Racetoration ones except in steel], after looking at it for a while I thought it put too great a bending moment on the chassis mounting, so I modified them by welding extra metal onto the bracket to meet the redundant bump stop mount on the chassis, it looks a far stronger job and is probably a similar idea to the CTM mount. I would definately not use any conversion that mounts onto the body or inner wing. Ron Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheeler Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Stan I also agree with Richard, fitting telescpic shocks transformed my car. I fitted the CTM brackets they are very well made with three point fixings. Colin at CTM recommended Konis, I queried the fact that they cannot be adjusted without removing but he gave me an adjustment setting for road use which feels very good, even if you have to adjust them it is not the greatest job, maybe 20/30 minutes a side. The main reason I changed was that my damper links kept breaking (hard driving on poorly maintained back roads in Surrey) but am amazed at the improvement in ride and handing the CTM mod has made. Go for poly bushes as well, my fillings are still in place! Good luck with the refurb Regards Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jemgee Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 I was recommended to get the CTM brackets and Konis at Malvern in 2003. Slight struggle to get all 3 bolt holes lined up but Konis went on straight out of the box. Last year I put Konis on the front - again out of the box. A few weeks ago John Sykes at TRBitz road tested my car and commented favourably on the handling and suspension - as a road car it is comfortable without shaking your teeth out and coupled with the MX5 seats I can do 300 miles without any discomfort. The big question is whether to set up the Konis stiffer just before a track day in October! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted July 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 Well thanks everyone for all the excellent advice and opinions. I will add rear telescopic shock conversion to my list. I do like the CTM and similar setups but they dont seem to be available in the US and the current exchange rate and shipping costs will probably rule them out but I have read good reports of the Herman van den Akkers set up which seems to be pretty beefy and I can source locally for less than $150.00 minus shocks. Since I have koni's already for the front I'll probably get a set of koni adjustables for the rear. I think the instructions that came with the koni's for the fornt said to set them on their lowest setting. I would be interested to hear what other recommendations people got. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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