Tr4Tony Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 Who's entered this event ? 12th October ..... Usually very good fun. Regards Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ryan Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 Yes we'll be there Tony. Great event last year which by my reckoning you won, if my memory is correct. Gearbox being rebuilt at the moment, and going back in next week, so we should be all go again. Scorching hot day last year and some fun off road jogularity to finish with too, see you there, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kevin bryant Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 Not me. Will be in the lake district on a mountain bike trying not to break anything. take care Kev Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tr4Tony Posted September 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 Haha Kevin ! Good plan Ryan, be interested to see where you go on gearboxes - I have a spare rebuilt one plus od unit if you are stuck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ryan Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 If it all goes wrong i would almost certainly get in touch Tony. This is a big rally for us in lots of ways, with a bit of luck we can bring it home for the TRs. I see Howard is with his son but even Matthew is no mug. If we beat John R we'll be ahead if him in the championship. so must get the TR up and running really. Who knows how long gearbox will last even when done? I'll let you know money and where and level of service when I see you next, rather than the forum. Also looking forward to ROTT but see you soon cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 628 Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 It was fun with the three TR4's running together on last year's Throckmorton, but I'm afraid I'm missing out this time, the car needs urgent attention. Yes, I know I've been saying that for the last two years but since I reversed off the trailer at the Oulton Park demo last month and caught the o/side sill on the ramp, neatly removing a large portion of sill as if it had been cut with a knife, I think this time I'd better get on with it. Hopefully it will be ready for next year better than ever (I have a cunning plan....well, several, actually!) Unfortunately these plans probably involve the TR being restricted to the stages, regulations-wise, but if I get my finger out with the Mk1 2000 saloon (or even the early TR7 coupe I've got tucked away at the back of the workshop - just waiting to see what rule changes materialise for next year....) there's every chance I will be playing on the roads again on the odd occasion. Good luck to the Triumph crews! Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dazzer Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) Really enjoyed this one last year, but also can't make it. Will miss it. Good look to all those taking part. Nigel... a TR7 as well... you could try some of the Nescro events next year, we've just done the Doonhamer, no regularity between tests, just a day of varied tests on all surfaces and you're pitted against classic and moderns, no reversing... superb fun. In the 2000 we managed 4th O/A! first time out. varied mix of cars from TRs through 2.3 chevette, Cortina GT, Escorts, Porsche, Marlin Roadster, Amazons, Dolly sprints, Viva HB, Clios, Fiestas, etc etc. Edited October 1, 2012 by Dazzer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MichaelH Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Will be in Spain for grandson's birthday, he is still into Spiderman and has yet to be introduced to spanners or maps Interested to know if Ryan wants an overdrive on his box? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ryan Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Michael, Yes the box is being rebuilt with an overdrive. It had one on there when we got it from Roger and as far as i know, from new. Do some people not bother then? Be interested to know why not, cost, reliability, or just preference? What do you have in the new car? Cheers Ryan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ryan Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Michael, Yes the box is being rebuilt with an overdrive. It had one on there when we got it from Roger and as far as i know, from new. Do some people not bother then? Be interested to know why not, cost, reliability, or just preference? What do you have in the new car? Cheers Ryan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MichaelH Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 I have an overdrive box- one of two I built up to go in both the old TR4A and the newTR4, Basically the same spec with all the "original parts" (phone me for the spec if you'r interested) and o/d services (the one near Sheffield) uprated clutch O/D I need the o/d to cruise around quietly. I built the gearboxes after I welded the 2nd gear spacer bearing to the main shaft- There is a mod to get round that. some people feel the od is extra, heavy and another thing to go wrong. I think it depends on how many miles you cruise as opposed to trying really hard all the time Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ryan Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Hello Tony, Just tried to send you a message about gearboxes but forum said you couldn't receive any more messages. My number is 078 50357 465 if you would be kind enough to call or email me southwesternarms@gmail dot com much appreciated Ryan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 628 Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 I don't run an overdrive. Yes, it's heavy, and something else to go wrong, I'm told even expensively uprated ones can break given high revs from a powerful engine under rally use. The weight advantage alone is significant; easier to get the box out too . I found right from the start (with the original o/d box) that I simply didn't use the o/d during a rally, road or stage (no time to even think of it on stages!) so the only advantage is if you use the car for ordinary driving - mine is admittedly very 'busy' on the motorway, especially with a 4.6 CWP, but will still pull over the ton on fast tarmac rallies no problem (using a TR Enterprises-built competition spec strengthened gearbox). As WKE is only used for rallying and I always trailer it to events, the decision in my case was obvious. Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ryan Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Are you serious Nigel? This season my valve springs have broken before the overdrive, apparently due to high revs. Weight, well that brings me back to the story of Howard Davies losing the drive with Gwyndeth Evans whenever that was. The team were fitting anodised this and that, lightweight alternator or starter, parts were failing they couldn't quite figure it out and then they realised they had the heaviest navigator in history. They even gave him a personal trainer, but fat blokes are happy blokes. Now I'm saying this as a 20 stone bloke, if weight was an issue I should be looking closer to home than a little o/d unit! The overdrive though has always been useful in my opinion, I think it was ilkley this year we even had fourth in od flat out, glad we had it then, we did ok. We could always change the diff to compensate but I'm sure we would struggle more on the twistier tight stuff then, as always I think it is what people are happy with! Cheers RP Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MichaelH Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 There has to be a trade off between navigator weight and skill I suppose that same could be said of the driver and certainly in road rallies the power to weight of the car is a distant third. Going fast in the wrong direction etc etc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 628 Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Howard seems to have found his niche as a rally reporter on S4C's Ralio+ instead! With my skinny 6'2", 13-stone weakling frame and even smaller co-driver, the weight of an overdrive is a bigger percentage of the all-up weight!! I agree with your road rally analysis Michael, but you may want to re-arrange those priorities after the Fat Albert Stages.... I'm told the emphasis for o/d damage is as much on the power than the revs, Ryan, but ask Tony about exploding o/d casings! TRE have given me 6.500 of the revvy things to play with and on the Jim Clark last year we were pulling well over the ton no problems still clear of the rev limiter set at at 6,400. Works for me. Horses for courses: Road use = o/d (wouldn't be without it for my 2000 saloon). Road rally + road use = o/d. Stage rallies and racing, using trailer = lose the big lump of useless metal stuck on the back of the gearbox! Nigel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
benjj Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Hello chaps, New member here and I've been very naughty - I don't have a TR but this is the only place online I've found people discussing Throckmorton so I registered! I'm there next week too - not in the championship though as I'm driving with a navigator supplied by Mission Motorsport (kind of like Help for Heroes but getting wounded service chaps (and girls) into motorsport - worth looking them up www.missionmotorsport.org) Anyway, this will be my 4th competitive rally and the first one that is predominantly tests. Really looking forward to it - the car has had a lot of work and it will also be my first time rallying ever with RWD, hoping not to get the red mist and overcook it in front of so many season campaigners! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) How the hell you find time to play with an overdrive on any rally is beyond me, dump it Edited October 5, 2012 by ntc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ryan Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Two points of note there Neil. Firstly "dumping" it would seem a little bit hasty when I use it regularly. Secondly, if it is beyond you how we find time to play with it then come along and watch us go, failing that check out last years test times on the HERO website, especially the ones later in the day (Tony's in the morning), then go and ask some of the Porsche drivers whether we were just playing. Cheers Ryan. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Ryan How many BTRDC, National/ International events have you competed in? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ryan Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Neil, I can promise you that nothing I write is personal, please don't take it so. I don't think I even know you. I don't even take myself that seriously either, at least lets hope not. The answer to your question as it is though is that I have only ever done the tulip rally, about nine times, one year I even won my class and got a lovely metal tulip. I also happened to finish last years Le Jog with the lowest penalties. But yes in the scheme of things, not that many I understand. I thought you said though that there wasn't time to even think about using the od, and my point was that if we do then surely it mustn't be seen as automatically wrong or detrimental? There is time to think about it. I've even done some stage events years ago and i am sure everyone would agree they are a totally different beast to the ine day road jobs. But I could be wrong, not everything I think is right , is right. All the best Ryan. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dazzer Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 The overdrive debate is interesting in that I wouldn't be without one but others equally state weight, reliability and event type being the factors that influence them. From my experience of all types of club/national B events; HRCR, NESCRO, auto tests, 12 cars, scatters, trials, continental regularity/test events, etc I would definitely still spec one and have never had a problem. Yes we do drive our car to events, but overdrive use doesn't end there. On the Throckmorton specifically with its long wide open tests I was popping it in and out of overdrive second last year and whether that was a factor or not we managed a credible 9th scratch (7th by Hero calculations). Not in the TR league (Ryan, Tony, Nigel) but hanging on in there in the 2000 saloon. Our TR4 use to have a racestorations fitted uprated overdrive and that was a positive in/out, no delay, with no slip whatsoever, this was only on 3rd/4th but still really handy for the longer special tests. On the Tour of Cheshire a very friendly ex works driver at scrutineering, wish I could remember his name, was telling me that the works saloons use to have overdrive on all forward gears and they use to use it. I've used the current J type overdrive now for 30K + for all types of comp and not a hint of a problem, although it is attached to its second gearbox. Cheers Darren Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) Chaps Sorry if I have been a bit blunt with my replies,next time out forget the overdrive is there and your mind set will be with driving the car and your times will be quicker, better to fit a rev limiter Edited October 6, 2012 by ntc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tr4Tony Posted October 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Neil, your posts are blunt. This is why you don't get a response maybe ? You need to remember when having a go that we are running under very different regs these days. no modsports stuff allowed, at all. we cannot for example run any electronic devices and the cars are a very tight spec., Almost to FIA homologation and the gap between MSA blue book and FIA is closing quickly. The position with eligibility generally is becoming silly, so most cars are running 'under spec' to avoid a shouting match at scrutineering. Rev limiters are in your ears and on the dashboard if you know your car well enough. You know as we'll as I do what happens if you regularly buzz a four cylinder and the evidence is always in the engine when it comes apart. The overdrive works well on Tarmac when you are running a big rear end ratio - the style of events these days means that there is a mix of twisty and tight followed by long and very fast. If you don't have the overdrive you top out and get wiped away by the big power 911s etc in our class. These guys run 300 bhp and loads of traction so it's very very hard to compete with them. Our TR's are about half that plus a little so we need the higher top end that the overdrive gives. No question. The escorts are another animal altogether and despite the fact that we are competing in machinery which has its origins just post war, we end up chasing nimble and powerful mk1s which even in the late 60's were a dominant force. Again, what they have in handling a TR can recover in mid range grunt provided that you can keep the speed on, so the overdrive and big rear end solution works because it plays to the strength of the TR in this environment, even now on serious Tarmac stage events. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MichaelH Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Back to the ? value? of overdrives. Having built a car to go to do stage rallying I am now driving it about to get used to it - cos it is very different to my 4A. I did a night rally, which showed that the car had plent of go, but it made a big difference to be able to go through the "quiet" zones in O/D top @30 mph (works out at 1500 revs). I still use the car to pick up the papers - go to the local village for swimming etc. So far for me an o/d is very important. I am sure that I will do better on the Fat Albert stages because I am used to and confident of the car than if it sat in a box until the start. Having built up the gearboxes with o/d I might as well use them. Have a good thrash on the Throckmorton, finding a use for all the underdriven TRs is more important than the detail of the overdrive Regards Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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