To convert, or not to convert?

[Paul Heritage2]

I've had a 1980 TR7V8 DHC for 20 years (200bhp) (www.triumph-cars.co.uk) and decided last week, after many months of looking for a non-sunroof TR7 FHC, to purchase an early 1976 TR7 FHC (2.0l) with the idea of replacing everything and building a fast road TR7 V8 FHC over the coming months/years. (Un)fortunately I seem to have bought a really good early TR7 that everything works and came with full service history, 2 owners from new, and fully documented 65k miles and garaged nearly all its life, so very little rust and hasn't been restored. I'm now wondering whether it is too good to convert because it still retains all the original Speke components and drives really well - in fact all this week I've gone to work in the TR7 and left the 370Z at home!

 

Although I'm all for improving a car, and being non-original, I can't help to wonder if I should leave this as is...

Edited August 20, 2010 by Paul Heritage2

[Paul Heritage2]

I've had a 1980 TR7V8 DHC for 20 years (200bhp) (www.triumph-cars.co.uk) and decided last week, after many months of looking for a non-sunroof TR7 FHC, to purchase an early 1976 TR7 FHC (2.0l) with the idea of replacing everything and building a fast road TR7 V8 FHC over the coming months/years. (Un)fortunately I seem to have bought a really good early TR7 that everything works and came with full service history, 2 owners from new, and fully documented 65k miles and garaged nearly all its life, so very little rust and hasn't been restored. I'm now wondering whether it is too good to convert because it still retains all the original Speke components and drives really well - in fact all this week I've gone to work in the TR7 and left the 370Z at home!

 

Although I'm all for improving a car, and being non-original, I can't help to wonder if I should leave this as is...

 

Missed the pics off...

Edited August 20, 2010 by Paul Heritage2

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Paul,

 

The TR7 is an endangered species in any shape or form, and good 2 litre Speke tintops are becoming rare indeed, let alone unrestored examples - good TR5s are almost commonplace in comparison. We rescued a (partially dismantled mechanics) abandoned project tin top last year, with an almost rust-free shell . . . it will be put back together in more-or-less original format simply because so few remain. Full restoration of a corroded monococque fhc Wedge is economically unviable, we've reached the stage where the few relatively original and genuinely sound survivors should be preserved, come what may. By 2015 they will be the rarest of all production TRs.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Paul Heritage2]

Hi Paul,

 

The TR7 is an endangered species in any shape or form, and good 2 litre Speke tintops are becoming rare indeed, let alone unrestored examples - good TR5s are almost commonplace in comparison. We rescued a (partially dismantled mechanics) abandoned project tin top last year, with an almost rust-free shell . . . it will be put back together in more-or-less original format simply because so few remain. Full restoration of a corroded monococque fhc Wedge is economically unviable, we've reached the stage where the few relatively original and genuinely sound survivors should be preserved, come what may. By 2015 they will be the rarest of all production TRs.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

 

Hi Alec,

 

It is because of the condition and originality that has me wondering if I should leave it unmolested and look for something else and keep/sell this one. In the end, whichever FHC I get will be completely gutted and probably only the shell remain.

 

p.s. I assume you still have the yellow monster drag TR7?

 

Paul,

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Paul,

 

leave it unmolested . . . .

 

Yes, my wife still has the TR8 Drag Car - woken from slumber last month, just to give our French and Dutch visitors earache en route to Malvern !

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Paul Heritage2]

Hi Paul,

 

leave it unmolested . . . .

 

Yes, my wife still has the TR8 Drag Car - woken from slumber last month, just to give our French and Dutch visitors earache en route to Malvern !

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

 

Even the headlights raise and lower in complete unison!

 

It was bad enough coming home with a second TR7 without telling my wife, let alone looking for a 3rd! If a more suitable donor comes along over the winter I will consider my options more closely.

 

Cheers Alec.

 

Paul.

[alan atkinson]

It's a TR7 FFS.

Are they really that rare over there?

 

Not to be a complete tool, but I have the same dilemma with a TR8 FHC and it's still a tough call.

I can buy a good 7 and fix it up for about the same as converting this one.

Only the fact that there aren't many left, and this is bone stock, has stopped me putting an LS1 in there.

It's not like they are worth anything when all's said and done...

 

Do what makes you happy would be my advice. Alec may (will) disagree.

Edited August 21, 2010 by alan atkinson

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Alan,

 

astonishing though it may sound, yes they really are becoming that rare over here - especially fhc TR7s with the solid steel roof, as opposed to the sunroof versions.

 

The number of Wedges still on the DVLA books has plummeted in the past decade. Just look at all the used parts from scrappers on ebay, and see how little the parts fetch. We as a family have 6 Wedges for our sins, only 4 of which will still be extant in 2015, the other 2 have deteriorated beyond resurrection - and 3 of those 4 are more or less modified, just the one project stocker to be reassembled. That's a damn sight better ratio than average, I'd suggest maybe 30% of the TR7s currently logged with DVLA will still be running in 5 years time. Corrosion factor, salt on the roads etc, and lack of rustproofing in the first place.

 

How much they might be worth in 2015 or 2020 is anyone's guess . . . certainly not a fortune. But that isn't a significant consideration in my book, preserving the marque TR is. I may no longer be a member of the TR Register, but I still hold to the founding raison d'etre, however unfashionable that might seem. And I have time for the teenagers who wander into our garages and drool over our old cars, their idea of cool is the future. The flame still burns.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[alan atkinson]

Hi Alan,

 

astonishing though it may sound, yes they really are becoming that rare over here - especially fhc TR7s with the solid steel roof, as opposed to the sunroof versions.

 

 

I can see a sideline business in my near future. Want to be the UK end of it?

 

How much they might be worth in 2015 or 2020 is anyone's guess . . . certainly not a fortune.

 

 

My guess would be sod all.

I'd love to be proven wrong though.

 

Lest you (and anyone else) think I'm being unduly negative, I live in different market conditions. I can pick up a rust free TR7 for under a grand. I can pick up a fully restored one with fresh paint (less than 50 miles from my door) for three.

 

I like TR8s. A lot. I think the FHC is the best GT Triumph ever made - including the Stag. I still don't see them ever being worth a significant fraction of the value of a 5 or a 6 though.

Edited August 21, 2010 by alan atkinson

[Odd]

... Corrosion factor, salt on the roads etc, and lack of rustproofing in the first place...

Alec, your problem in Britain is:

Despite those mentioned factors you persist in driving your Wedges off season, and not only during dry sunny summer days - sure they will perish if treated like that. We have similar (or worse) climatic conditions up here, and no-one would get the d--t idea to drive a hobby car off season. That explains why we have some 80% of the Spitfires sold in Sweden during the sixties surviving on the DVLA registry still. If only the Wedge had been sold in Sweden we'd have similar figures there. Now the Wedge figure is much closer to 100%, since the cars that have been imported gets treated well by their owners - and thus survive.

/Odd

Edited August 21, 2010 by Odd

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Odd,

 

so you only drive your hobby cars on dry sunny summer days ? Strewth, give me strength. Sweden may be an alien culture to many of us Brits, but even from the land of Abba and ambivalent neutrality, that takes some beating.

 

The problems to which I referred - salt on the roads, corrosion, lack of rustproofing - were with reference to what happened to the cars in their early years as daily drivers. Once the dreaded tinworm takes a serious hold, the days of any monococque are effectively numbered. Relatively few Wedges did not suffer from serious corrosion early in their lives, some were starting to rot even before delivery to the first owner. The very few really good original shells that do survive should be preserved as reasonably original cars - there are an adequate number of shells in need of only modest repair and refurbishment to satisfy the market for V8 or Sprint conversions.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Odd]

The problems to which I referred - salt on the roads, corrosion, lack of rustproofing - were with reference to what happened to the cars in their early years

as daily drivers. Once the dreaded tinworm takes a serious hold, the days of any monococque are effectively numbered. Relatively few Wedges did not suffer

from serious corrosion early in their lives, some were starting to rot even before delivery to the first owner.

Very true Alec, very true...

That's why we (usually) import our Wedges from the drier states in America, not only do they have their steering on the correct side

- they are usually in a very good condition. My own '8 is a good example, the only rust anywhere in the car was on the battery tray (Probably from an

overcooked battery sometime...) nothing else. And it was 18+ years old when I got it. Found in LasVegas, NV. OK, sure. A lot of the 'rubber' etc had

perished, but the steel was as new... Preserved for me in America - and now stored for 8-9-10 months a year in dried'n heated storage here. And

in a heated garage during the driving season. I hate rust!...

 

Yes, most of us only drive our hobby cars on dry sunny summer days. And definitely not before the first really heavy downpours in the late spring

have flushed the salt'n dust off of the roads.

 

[i only whish dads (rhd!) TR7V8 were half as nice, rustvise. I'll have to get a 'new' body for that one (from America) when I take possession of it.

I only hope Chris Turner still wants to exchange its rhd PS rack for the two LHD racks we discussed earlier - when that day comes...]

Edited August 21, 2010 by Odd

[Paul Heritage2]

I guess one of the main issue we have is that the original TR7 wasn't a great drivers cars and most of the 2.0l cars have been upgraded - and the fact that the early cars were supposedly badly built - and the when the convertible came out they sold 10 time the number of the FHC means that early, full tin-top 2.0l cars are getting rare. Unfortunately, unlike the TR5 they aren't very desirable (IMHO) because they aren't a sports car like previous TR's were (I have owned 3 x 2.0l TR7's and although I prefer them over previous TR's I accept their failures). The TR7 DHC and the TR8's (and TR7v8's) just feel much better; so will a TR7 2.0l ever be sought after? Not sure...I will continue to enjoy the TR7V8 over the TR7 any day, but do they deserve to be ignored?

 

I recently purchased the TR7 FHC to build a fast-road car (rally replica?) but the originality & honesty of the car has made me think twice before proceeding.

 

Cheers,