Dove variant fuel consumption

[Davidk]

Hi

 

Considering buying a tr4a. But I read somewhere that the couped Dove variant had a slightly different engine that improved fuel consumption by about 20%. Is this true and if so, is it possible to apply this mod to a normal TR4A? [i gather it was something to do with balancing]

 

And if it isn't true, is it possible to improve fuel consumption, and so running costs and emissions, without affecting performance?

 

Many thanks for advice

David

[67_gt6]

Hi David

 

What would you consider to be acceptable consumption? On a standard 4A with an overdrive gearbox you could expect very high 20s/low 30s mpg. Modern level emissions would be a pointless target IMO as you don't have the catalytic converter, precise injection etc that make low emissions achievable on a modern car. In short, fuel consumption is not generally considered an issue on the 4 cylinder cars in the same way that it might be considered one on the fuel injected 6's or on a V8.

 

Any engine that is properly balanced will run "better", smoother than one that isn't. I would expect mpg to be poorer on a Dove as it is heavier. Of all the costs associated with owning a 4A I don'y think most owners would regard fuel as one of the more significant ones.

 

Tuning carbs is always a bit of a balancing act with regards to mpg and performance, you could potentially run the carbs leaner at the expense of a bit of performance, however you might run the risk of melting a piston if you overdo it.

 

I assume the car you have in mind is the primrose yellow one on carandclassic.co.uk It looks decent, but 4As have a lot of potential pitfalls for the unwary and I would suggest you have a look at the Roger William's book if you haven't done so already - there haven't been many 4s or 4As on the market recently but don't let that push you into buying the first one you see.

 

Andy

Edited August 31, 2009 by 67_gt6

[Alec Pringle]

Hi David,

 

Most Doves were TR4, maybe a couple were 4A based - nobody knows how many 4As precisely, a handful at most !

 

There was no difference in engine spec between the ordinary TRs and the Dove, and any marginal improvement in aerodynamics was more than cancelled out by the extra weight of the coupe. So no real difference in fuel consumption either way. Anything you might have read suggesting engine differences is simply nonsense.

 

If you're concerned about fuel economy and emissions . . . . then don't waste your time buying a classic sports car.

 

Whatever classic sports car you care to name, neither fuel economy not emission levels came high on the list of priorities in the design brief. Anyone who suggests that you can transform any classic into an economical low-emission mode of transport is peddling snake oil.

 

Having said that, the TR2 through to 4A models were surprisingly economical in their day - 30+mpg is realistic in touring use, low 20s in local or rapid motoring. That's better than most sportsters of the 50s and 60s. But it won't ever keep the fanatic eco warriors happy - but then not a lot will cheer up the terminally depressed lunatic fringe, so bollocks to the lot of them.

 

Classic cars are for style, performance, and camaraderie . . . . just don't bring economy into the equation, other than a lack of depreciation compared to more modern machinery !

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Davidk]

Hi again

 

I've read of this disparity in consumption in a number of placers. Here's one of them: http://www.trdrivers.com/the_dove_gtr4.html .

 

I do appreciate that one can't be too picky about these issues when driving a classic. But I'm reading of average consumption figures of 20-23 mpg on a 4a, which is a little excessive for my wallet. I'm also hankering afetr an S-type Jag, but am balking at their 20mpg.

[Davidk]

Thanks for the advice Andy. I am wandering in fog to a degree. Would prefer to buy from a reputable dealer really.

[Alec Pringle]

Hi David,

 

if you have to watch the pennies, cross Jags right off your list. 20mpg from an S-type ? Only if you're crawling in overdrive top - from my past experience 15mpg would be more like an average figure, a lot less if you start using the performance. In any case, fuel consumption is neither here nor there in comparison with Jaguar service bills . . . . if you need to ask what they are, you can't afford them, that sort of thing !!

 

Balancing, gas flowing etc is more for performance than economy - OK, potential efficiency is increased, but any improvement in fuel economy is modest compared to the outlay, and hardly worth worrying about. Use the extra performance and economy is out of the window regardless . . . .

 

Unless a classic is in everyday use, fuel economy is less significant than maintenance and repair costs. 3000 miles per annum at 25mpg amounts to some £600, at 20mpg that's £750 . . . . figures you could easily spend just on annual maintenance, let alone repair, if the car is maintained by a specialist rather than by diy. Long term, you have to budget in excess of £1Kpa maintenance and repair, and it's not hard to double that in an unlucky year.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Davidk]

Ohhh...but the interior of those Jags is so achingly gorgeous...about the only chance I'm ever going to get to smoke a cigar in a gentleman's club.

 

OK, maybe I'll have to wait until peak oil has decimated prices.

[88V8]

Ohhh...but the interior of those Jags is so achingly gorgeous...about the only chance I'm ever going to get to smoke a cigar in a gentleman's club.

 

OK, maybe I'll have to wait until peak oil has decimated prices.

We're already past peak oil. When the world economy picks up, petrol prices will go zooming, again.

 

As Alec says, if you're worrried about petrol costs, forget Classics.

I run a TR6 that does about 25mpg, a V8 Landy that does, errrm, rather less, and last week I was bidding on a TR6 V8 that probably does nearer 15mpg. But over 3,000 miles per annum, so what?

 

If you really hanker after a woody leathery interior, most cars of the 30s had them, and many decent ones of the 50s, including some which will do 30mpg if you're prepared to cruise at 40mph.

It all depends what you want....

 

Ivor

[Kiwifrog]

Ohhh...but the interior of those Jags is so achingly gorgeous...about the only chance I'm ever going to get to smoke a cigar in a gentleman's club.

 

OK, maybe I'll have to wait until peak oil has decimated prices.

 

 

Dave

 

On the environmental Front just think by driving a classic you are doing the world a favour, the production of a car produces much more pollution than the car itself will produce by way of emissions in several of its lifetimes, so by driving a classic you are an Eco Warrior!!!!

 

Petrol is still cheaper than beer so just have a couple of pints less a week and use the pennies saved to have a blast in your car, you only live once and the fun and smiles generated by classic ownership come cheap. Join a local group and buy a haynes manual and do the servicing and maintenance of your car yourself and then you will save even more money, the cars are very simple to work on and there is always someone either in person or on the net willing to help.

 

Its not about the pennies but the smiles

 

Cheers

 

Alan

Edited September 1, 2009 by Kiwifrog

[Robin Powell]

I toured Norway last year in my 4A up to the ice fields, down to the sea, round many a hairpin bends and for the 1700 mile trip I averaged 31.5 mpg so if you stick to a 4 cylinder TR you won't go far wrong consumption wise.