Norman D Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 I am doing a home restoration on a TR3a , busy with body at present but decided to take a look at engine to see what needs doing, its in very good condition considering the body was a wreck, however although the block is TR no TS60350E the pistons have 4 rings and are 85mm which I think makes them Vanguard. Is there any reason why I should not use them as they are unworn have flat tops and give me 2008cc? Roger Williams resto book warns against them but why? The same book says all TR3 pistons have 3 rings but Moss list 4 Ring pistons .Any advice welcomed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick Webster Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) I am doing a home restoration on a TR3a , busy with body at present but decided to take a look at engine to see what needs doing, its in very good condition considering the body was a wreck, however although the block is TR no TS60350E the pistons have 4 rings and are 85mm which I think makes them Vanguard. Is there any reason why I should not use them as they are unworn have flat tops and give me 2008cc? Roger Williams resto book warns against them but why? The same book says all TR3 pistons have 3 rings but Moss list 4 Ring pistons .Any advice welcomed. If you obtain a copy of "Technicalities" from the TR Register you will find a comprehensive section on the comparative merits of pistons - though it is a bit dated now, since it assumes finding all types of original pistons off the shelf. However my view would be that if you have a decent fitting set of pistons in the car then make use of them. Or sell the engine to a Vanguard owner. Depends though how you intend to use the car. Four rings will give increased friction and hence less power. The Vanguard engine was not built to rev particularly high so sustained high speed (say above 4000 rpm) might not be that good an idea; more friction = more heat. On the plus side they are supposed to run quieter, as if that was an issue with the wind rushing past your ears. Nick Edited December 30, 2008 by Nick Webster Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Since the block number identifies your engine as an engine from a late TR3A, it is only the pistons and maybe the liners which "might" come from a Vanguard. I have Hepolite pistons and liners in my 1958 TR3A. I bought them as a set from Peter Hepworth in North Yorkshire in 1988 with the original 83mm diameter giving 1991 cc displacement. My Hepolite pistons have 4 rings. I have driven a little more than 100,000 miles and 7,000 miles ago, I re-built the engine again after honing the bores and putting in new Hastings piston rings. The pistons and liners are those I bought in 1987. The photo shows one of the pistons after having been driven 94,000 miles. I can only assume that maybe the pistons for a Vanguard might have a thinner top and might possibly be suspect with the superior power of the TR engine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Hi Norman, If it ain't broke, then don't fix it. You'll spend enough on the rest of the car, if the engine is OKish then just use it 'as is'. As Nick points out, the old Technicalities book had a chunk about pistons, courtesy of Ian Gibson and Ian Cornish if I remember correctly. Ordinary Vanguard 85mm pistons are, I think, marginally lower compression (7.5 as opposed to 8.0?) but will hang on in there unless you're thrashing the car hard. Sportsman 85mm pistons were effectively just larger versions of TR items, and should last as well - even driven hard. If you do dismantle the engine, make sure you refit decent piston rings - I think I'm right in suggesting that they were the weak points on the 85mm engines. Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Norman D Posted December 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Hi Norman, If it ain't broke, then don't fix it. You'll spend enough on the rest of the car, if the engine is OKish then just use it 'as is'. As Nick points out, the old Technicalities book had a chunk about pistons, courtesy of Ian Gibson and Ian Cornish if I remember correctly. Ordinary Vanguard 85mm pistons are, I think, marginally lower compression (7.5 as opposed to 8.0?) but will hang on in there unless you're thrashing the car hard. Sportsman 85mm pistons were effectively just larger versions of TR items, and should last as well - even driven hard. If you do dismantle the engine, make sure you refit decent piston rings - I think I'm right in suggesting that they were the weak points on the 85mm engines. Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Norman D Posted December 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Thanks people for your quick response and good advice offerred, I have now removed all pistons and liners and discovered that all pistons have 4 rings but one has 3 above gudgeon pin and 1 below the others have 4 rings above the pin so I guess the decision is made for me in the interests of balance and peace of mind new pistons and liners are needed and I dont even have a complete set to offer to any Vanguard owners! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dick Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Back in the days when 2s and 3s were banger cars and we had to keep them running on anything that fitted, installing Vanguard pistons and liners was a common practice......When Cox and Buckles first started they sold the Vangaurd piston and liner sets....I believe for £17. I have always believed that if it is safe, fits and works then use it, keep the car on the road, drive and enjoy it. Regards Dick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest colinTR2 Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 I am doing a home restoration on a TR3a , busy with body at present but decided to take a look at engine to see what needs doing, its in very good condition considering the body was a wreck, however although the block is TR no TS60350E the pistons have 4 rings and are 85mm which I think makes them Vanguard. Is there any reason why I should not use them as they are unworn have flat tops and give me 2008cc? Roger Williams resto book warns against them but why? The same book says all TR3 pistons have 3 rings but Moss list 4 Ring pistons .Any advice welcomed. Norman I have Vanguard pistons from, I think, a Sportsman fitted into my original TR2 block. I bought a very well looked after block when I was doing the rebuild and just used the pistons and liners. These have now been in for around 15 years and are fine. I fitted new rings when I rebuilt the engine, along with new small ends. Also I think they increase the capacity to around 2058cc ?? regards Colin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 85mm Vanny pistons gave 2088cc Colin. Regards, Viv Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RichardO Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Thanks people for your quick response and good advice offerred, I have now removed all pistons and liners and discovered that all pistons have 4 rings but one has 3 above gudgeon pin and 1 below the others have 4 rings above the pin so I guess the decision is made for me in the interests of balance and peace of mind new pistons and liners are needed and I dont even have a complete set to offer to any Vanguard owners! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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