Bill Bourne Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 2 pack will and never will look right on these cars imho 4 k is a blow over. What a downer - thanks for the encouragement Neil - so so helpful. What should we do then - spend 10k , 20k , 40k ?????? It's all very well to be critical but in all honesty why say its a blow over ! . I can assure you I would not entertain a blow over and as for 2 pack - I have my 6 in 2 pack and I'm glad I did. It's lasted 20+ years and still looks good. So I'm happy with it. Sometimes I wonder why I bother with his forum.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cotswold Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) Hi Ernest, I just got my TR4A back from a paintshop that had had the car since December. I had been away over the winter in Thailand and car should have been ready in March but they put off doing it because they said they had other commitments to large insurers to do their work first (not explained to me when booked). I had prepared the car with all brightwork, lights, seats, windows and carpets removed and all panel fastenings loosened. I arranged a car transporter and had the car delivered in December. We had agreed a price of £4,000 plus an additional £1,000 (+VAT) contingency to deal with any repairs. The car had had a body off restoration some 12 years previous but the paint was not applied correctly at the time so I arranged for the panels to be blasted for a bare metal respray and this was included in the price. Our total was therefore Circa £6,000. Whilst I was away I received about 20 images of the blasted and etch primed panels via email and agreed that damage to the rear deck at the boot hinges would be better dealt with by fitting a new panel I sourced via ebay at £260. So what happened you ask? Well after four 5 hour return trips down to the paintshop over two months, during which progress on the car was very very slow I lost patience and gave them a deadline after which I said I was going to come and collect the car in whatever state it was in. Miraculously the car was painted and re-assembled a week after my deadline by which time I was just pleased go down and inspect it before arranging collection. I was presented with a bill for £9,000 plus VAT for additional work!! I was aghast and pointed out that at no time had I been informed that my agreed contingency had been breached. I sought legal advice and was advised that as the terms had been agreed with a contingency and that as no indication of additional cost was given I had no legal obligation to pay more and furthermore the paintshop was not legally allowed to keep my car without my permission if the written agreed amount was paid. I duly arranged to have the car collected and transferred the money. I actually did pay an additional £500 in cash (tot £6,500) as there was some work on the lower boot lid that I decided that together with welding in the new rear deck could have taken the total over the £1,000 contingency, as I wanted to be fair (although my wife said I shouldn't as they had tried to con me). Anyway my advice after my experience: Always obtain a quote in writing that states exactly what work or how many hours labour is included besides the process they employ and how many layers of primer and top coat etc. is included. Always state a clear contingency figure that they discuss before using and must not be exceed without written consent. Try and choose a paintshop local to you so you can regularly drop in to check progress and workmanship. Remember that they will charge £20-£40 an hour for any work so always ask how many hours additional work will take. Also note that a 40+ year old car, even a good looking one, is very likely to have repaired dents that blasting will reveal and remove so some work will probably be needed especially on the wings. Good luck and I hope this is useful. Charles Edited August 21, 2015 by cotswold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 What a downer - thanks for the encouragement Neil - so so helpful. What should we do then - spend 10k , 20k , 40k ?????? It's all very well to be critical but in all honesty why say its a blow over ! . I can assure you I would not entertain a blow over and as for 2 pack - I have my 6 in 2 pack and I'm glad I did. It's lasted 20+ years and still looks good. So I'm happy with it. Sometimes I wonder why I bother with his forum.. Bill Ask our paint expert ie Stuart and see if he agrees . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bill Bourne Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Bill Ask our paint expert ie Stuart and see if he agrees . I have already done that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 I have already done that. And he said? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bill Bourne Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Hi Ernest, I just got my TR4A back from a paintshop that had had the car since December. I had been away over the winter in Thailand and car should have been ready in March but they put off doing it because they said they had other commitments to large insurers to do their work first (not explained to me when booked). I had prepared the car with all brightwork, lights, seats, windows and carpets removed and all panel fastenings loosened. I arranged a car transporter and had the car delivered in December. We had agreed a price of £4,000 plus an additional £1,000 (+VAT) contingency to deal with any repairs. The car had had a body off restoration some 12 years previous but the paint was not applied correctly at the time so I arranged for the panels to be blasted for a bare metal respray and this was included in the price. Our total was therefore Circa £6,000. Whilst I was away I received about 20 images of the blasted and etch primed panels via email and agreed that damage to the rear deck at the boot hinges would be better dealt with by fitting a new panel I sourced via ebay at £260. So what happened you ask? Well after four 5 hour return trips down to the paintshop over two months, during which progress on the car was very very slow I lost patience and gave them a deadline after which I said I was going to come and collect the car in whatever state it was in. Miraculously the car was painted and re-assembled a week after my deadline by which time I was just pleased go down and inspect it before arranging collection. I was presented with a bill for £9,000 plus VAT for additional work!! I was aghast and pointed out that at no time had I been informed that my agreed contingency had been breached. I sought legal advice and was advised that as the terms had been agreed with a contingency and that as no indication of additional cost was given I had no legal obligation to pay more and furthermore the paintshop was not legally allowed to keep my car without my permission if the written agreed amount was paid. I duly arranged to have the car collected and transferred the money. I actually did pay an additional £500 in cash (tot £6,500) as there was some work on the lower boot lid that I decided that together with welding in the new rear deck could have taken the total over the £1,000 contingency, as I wanted to be fair (although my wife said I shouldn't as they had tried to con me). Anyway my advice after my experience: Always obtain a quote in writing that states exactly what work or how many hours labour is included besides the process they employ and how many layers of primer and top coat etc. is included. Always state a clear contingency figure that they discuss before using and must not be exceed without written consent. Try and choose a paintshop local to you so you can regularly drop in to check progress and workmanship. Remember that they will charge £20-£40 an hour for any work so always ask how many hours additional work will take. Also note that a 40+ year old car, even a good looking one, is very likely to have repaired dents that blasting will reveal and remove so some work will probably be needed especially on the wings. Good luck and I hope this is useful. Charles Very good advice and I've set that up already. Just a final viewing to take place of the body by the paint shop man, before the final quote. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bill Bourne Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 And he said? With due respect - It is not appropriate for me to comment on here about Stuarts quote for this car. He is very professional about his approach and I have a lot of respect for his knowledge and expertise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cotswold Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Oh and I would suggest taking at least 6 close photos (all four sides + above bonnet and boot) of the car as it is so you can clearly see current panel gaps etc. Charles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 With due respect - It is not appropriate for me to comment on here about Stuarts quote for this car. He is very professional about his approach and I have a lot of respect for his knowledge and expertise. Bill It is not agreed I asked you for his opinion, to see if he agreed regarding 2 pack. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bill Bourne Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Bill It is not agreed I asked you for his opinion, to see if he agreed regarding 2 pack. He said, he might be able do the car in 2 pack, but he doesn't believe in 2 pack. He much prefers cellulose as that's how they left the factory. My own opinion is that the 2 pack finish is superior to cellulose, As said earlier, my own car is painted in 2 pack. Much harder wearing and after 20 years / 70k miles of road muck, grime, dust, tree sap, stones and god knows what else being thrown at it. It still looks great. That's been my experience and when other people see the car, it stands up to that assessment. But heh, it's a personal choice which one you want to choose. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Boyd Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Sorry to say but i favour the 2K refinishing, have been using it on the TR's for 20 years........ I better not get you started on water base paints Neil ......... Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ernest Posted August 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Bill and others Thank very much for this sound follow-up advice. I am thinking that personal recommendation is the way to go. I think I will have to attend more local TR meets and seek local knowledge. Have a nice weekend all! Ernest Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Boyd Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Best way to approach it Ernest, talk to people who have been in the same situation. When you narrow your choices down go and visit and see 1st hand what they have to offer you. You need to be confident that whoever you choose will do the job you want.... Good luck Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cotswold Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Good luck Ernest, Bill and others trying to make this expensive decision. My group either had bought their cars already done or the people they used had either retired or had gone out of business. That's why I went to 5 different paint shops and car restorers before I chose a father and son Paintshop. With all my careful investigations it still went wrong. I actually think that many members wouldn't actually recommend the people they used because of some dissatisfaction or other. The Paintshop I used lost various bolts and substituted others with non SS ones, they bent over the dash pad and split it in a couple of places etc. This may be a case of being suspicious of low ball quotes that are qualified with " of course it depends what we find when we ......." Despite what I said if you can't find a local firm it may be worth travelling to one that has been recommended, don't do what I did. BTW on balance unless you are a purist 2k seemed to be the preference for restorers who all agreed it was a harder wearing and less fading paint process just saying. Charles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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