Number of TR6 PI built?

[Jules TR6]

This more out of interest, than really needing to know ...and just for the CP & CR petrol injection model.

Looking at the 'buyers guide' pdf on the TR Register here  https://www.tr-register.co.uk/tr-buyers-guides/triumph-tr6

these are Commission number ranges given :

CP : PI 1969 model CP25001 to CP26998, 1970-1971 models CP50001 to CP54719, 1972 model CP75001 to CP77718.

CR : PI 1973 model CR1 to CR2911, 1974-1975 models CR5049 to CR6701.

Doing some math, number of cars :

1969              1998 *
1970-71         4719
1972              2718
CP =              9435

1973              2911
1974-75        1653
CR =              4564

Total CP + CR :

=                       13999

*when subtracting eg the 1969 numbers, CP26998 from CP25001, as they are inclusive, 1 needs to be added, as I have with all above).

The anomaly is with the figure the TR Register has as their calculated total, I quote : 13702 of the total were petrol injection.

Whereas I got to 13999.

Why the anomaly, a few hundred out?

Also another question, of the supposed '8370 sold in the UK', do we know what proportion of those were CP and CR?

[saffrontr]

Jules,

The difference is because not all numbers were used so the taking away of first and last numbers plus one doesn't work. The main gaps were CR5001 - CR5048 which were not built, similarly CP77104 - CP77199 and CP54573 - CP54716. There are also many other instances where cars at the end of a series had their commission number cancelled and replaced with numbers in the next series. There are also duplications in the commission numbers where for example Motor Show and publicity cars were allocated numbers which duplicated the numbers of production cars built later, all very complicated and of course it could be that the Motor Show cars etc were re-numbered before sale.

The 13702 for PI cars is from the production ledgers and from the commission numbers taking account of the above gaps comes to 13716 which does include some of the duplications noted above.

I'm not sure where the figure of 8370 came from as a lot of the sales records presumably include personal export delivery TR6 which were allocated registration numbers by the factory but which were only in the UK for a maximum of three months.  Of course quite a few of the personal export delivery cars were US CC and CF series and quite a few of these stayed in the UK so its not really possible to come up with a split easily.

Derek    

[Jules TR6]

1 hour ago, saffrontr said:

The main gaps were CR5001 - CR5048 which were not built, similarly CP77104 - CP77199 and CP54573 - CP54716.

...the CR gap I'd already not counted, the CP gaps add up to 240 cars less, so my total is now down to 13759, that's 57 cars unaccounted for ...which I'll not worry about!!!

Many thanks for the gap info, and the vagaries around it, makes sense.

Must be great motoring up there in the Pennines, not the driest part of the world though. Do you always avoid the roads when it's raining or with puddles etc? - or just try to keep wettish weather driving to a minimum? I'd like to drive the roads up there, but it's a 300 mile slog from here, probably take 7hrs or more with stops, not ideal for an old TR.

 

[saffrontr]

For completeness, nearly, here are the other gaps which are mainly in the CKD sequences, 33 numbers missing between 1CP50002LP and 1CP50436LP, 3 missing between 1CP51790LP to 1CP52077LP, and 12 missing between 1CP52931LP and 1CP53413LP. The remainder of the differences are mainly due to number re-allocations due to show and publicity cars.

It is indeed great driving up here in Cumbria and Northumberland, some super roads that's for sure, unfortunately that north-south weather divide this year has curtailed a lot of my planned trips and in fact I've just put the hardtop back on the TR!

Believe it or not but we had a heavy frost last night!"  

cheers

Derek

[Jules TR6]

...ok I'm noting all this down!

In the meantime I found the 'Rimmer Bros' table which seems more accurate than the version here at TR Register (that I linked to above)

https://rimmerbros.com/c/Triumph-TR6-Vehicle-Information

...according to that, the first production TR CP was CP25156

Then I found this, it's not the car that interests me but the details - that it was the 195th RHD TR6 built...

with a VIN plate of 25616 and the first production car being CP25156, that's 25616 - 25156 (+1 to be inclusive) = 461.

So how do they know it's the 195th PI (RHD) produced and not the 461st? - something to do with the RHD / LHD equation - Triumph were instantly making as many LHD PI's as RHD?

I'm not going lose sleep over this, but am curious as to where my TR is in the historic production line.

/

On the other topic... hardtops added to a roadster often don't look so good, I'm thinking Jag E-Type (the optional hardtop on the roadster), but the hard-top on a TR6 looks rather good!

Edited October 12, 2023 by Jules TR6

[saffrontr]

Jules,

Looks like Rimmers' have plagiarised the table from David Knowles great book on the TR6 "Triumph TR6 the Complete Story" and in doing so have made a mistake on the very first line!  The first TR6 PI excluding CP25001 is CP26146L and not CP25159 as they have listed. The correct table in David's book can be found on page 231. For completeness CP25146L was Signal Red and was despatched to Italy.  

As for CP25616 being the 195th PI ( RHD) that is also incorrect. CP25001 the pre-production TR6 was built on the 4th July 1968, 1CP25002 - 1CP25145 were built in Belgium, the first trial build 1CP25002LP was completed by the 18th February 1969 the rest followed from late April onwards. CP25146L to CP25291LO were built in Canley between the 28th November 1968 and 11th February 1969, 1CP25292 to 1CP25579 were built in Belgium the first not leaving the factory until May 1969 , CP25580 - CP25616 were built in Canley, CP25616 being built on the 20th February 1969. By my calculation that make CP25616 the 185 PI built and that includes 74 which are LHD.

Derek

[Jules TR6]

I should never have started this! So if I've got this correct, the 1969 cars / starting '25'...

1968        1CP25001 - Pre-production
1969        1CP25002LP - 1CP25145LP (Belgium)

1969        CP25146L - CP25291LO (Canley)
1969        1CP25292 - 1CP25579 (Belgium)
1969        CP25580 - CP25616 (Canley)

You say CP25146L was the first production vehicle (Red that went Italy), which means the 144 before it, built in Belgium, are not counted as production vehicles?

Referring back to the CP25616 car, 25616-25146 (+1 to be inclusive) = 470th PI built?

Now that I'm curious, maybe I just need to get David Knowles's book to clear this up!

[saffrontr]

Jules,

Not sure how you arrived at CP25616 being the 470th built. That isn't the case chronologically.  The ckd kits  1CP25002 - 1CP25145 and 1CP25292 - 1CP25579 were built after CP25616 with the exception of 1CP25002.

Please get hold of a copy David Knowles book . 

 

 

[Jules TR6]

On 10/13/2023 at 11:28 AM, saffrontr said:

Jules,

Not sure how you arrived at CP25616 being the 470th built.

That isn't the case chronologically.  The ckd kits  1CP25002 - 1CP25145 and 1CP25292 - 1CP25579 were built after CP25616 with the exception of 1CP25002.

Please get hold of a copy David Knowles book . 

 

 

Arh ok so the 1CP25292 - 1CP25579 range needs to be subtracted,

CP25616 - CP25146 (+1 to be inclusive) = 470

+ the Belgium 1CP25002LP = 471

1CP25579 - 1CP25292 (+1 to be inclusive) = 288

471 - 288 = 183 PI car.

I've just ordered Knowles's book on the TR6, many thanks!

Edited October 14, 2023 by Jules TR6

[Kiwifrog]

Jules

Derek is the high priest of TR6’s, as the TR6 registra he has spent many hours in Gaydon researching TR6 production and history, you can’t get a more reliable source on the TR6 

cheers

Alan 

[cp25616]

Absolutely agree Derek is the font of all TR6 knowledge regarding production figures etc etc. BTW CP25616 was owned by me from circa 1991 till 2005. Good car.

Alan G

[Jules TR6]

On 10/13/2023 at 4:51 PM, Jules TR6 said:

On 10/13/2023 at 11:28 AM, saffrontr said:

Jules,

Not sure how you arrived at CP25616 being the 470th built.

That isn't the case chronologically.  The ckd kits  1CP25002 - 1CP25145 and 1CP25292 - 1CP25579 were built after CP25616 with the exception of 1CP25002.

Please get hold of a copy David Knowles book . 

 

 

Expand  Expand  

Arh ok so the 1CP25292 - 1CP25579 range needs to be subtracted,

CP25616 - CP25146 (+1 to be inclusive) = 470

+ the Belgium 1CP25002LP = 471

1CP25579 - 1CP25292 (+1 to be inclusive) = 288

471 - 288 = 183 PI car.

I've just ordered Knowles's book on the TR6, many thanks!

David Knowles book on the TR6 just arrived. I'm blown away, this book is way more than I expected.

Incredible detail, research and presentation, a really beautiful book; the layout, graphics and photographs are above and beyond, so well delivered. Hats off, and one which I'm very much looking forward to reading, from the start.

...many thanks Derek for the suggestion!

So for any TR6 owners who haven't got this book, get it now!! In the UK it's hard to find new, though there's new copies on eBay, got mine from here -

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/285415785559

Edited October 23, 2023 by Jules TR6

[Steve-B]

34 minutes ago, Jules TR6 said:

David Knowles book on the TR6 just arrived. I'm blown away, this book is way more than I expected.

Incredible detail, research and presentation, a really beautiful book; the layout, graphics and photographs are above and beyond, so well delivered. Hats off, and one which I'm very much looking forward to reading, from the start.

...many thanks Derek for the suggestion!

So for any TR6 owner who haven't got this book, get it now!! In the UK it's hard to find new, though there's new copies on eBay, got mine from here -

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/285415785559

Many thanks for flagging this - I just ordered a copy and according to the link you shared there’s only 2 copies left gia that vendor. Looking forward to getting stuck in with it!