Enamel coating of manifold

[Guest Wyn]

Does anyone have any experience or recommendations of someone who could enamel coat my manfold as it has to come off the car next week therefore now's the time to do it. I'd prefer not to have to lose the shirt off my back!

 

Thanks

Wyn

[jdbinnington]

I asked about this a while ago in the black country, vitreous enameling, when i said for exhaust manif they declined the work, the heat would flake the vitreous after a few heat cycles

 

but... I did have an exhaust system for a motorcycle once which was black enameled on the downpipes, Laser system from the netherlands so it can be done

 

there should be a way of putting a finish on cast iron manifolds, shouldn't there, but perhaps not as we are still leaving them in reddish-brown after 100 years...

 

j

[Andy Moltu]

I guess the problem is expansion/contraction with the temperature changes. Enamel tends to be brittle and the differential expansion would probably be enough to crack it & ultimately flake off.

There must be suitable coatings but finding someone who does them is the difficult part.

[stuart]

In thirty years of trying i have still to find any long lasting coating for manifolds. I used to have exactly the same problem with jaguar manifolds and tried several different companies for enamelling some of whom would do them and some refused saying that they couldnt guarantee that it would stay on. The ones that would do it had very strict warm up proceedures but few of the manifolds lasted more than a few months before flaking off. The original factory coating would be perfect after twenty years on some cars and had completely flaked off on others It seems as if the running in period is very critical due to the different expansion of materials.

Stuart.

[Roger H]

Vitreous eamel coating was used on some old cast iron manifolds (Jags?) and is a disaster as Andym has hit the nail on the head. Microcrazing allows moisture in to the cast iron surface which rusts and the coating spalls off.

 

This is what you want and these are the only people I know of in UK that do it.

 

http://www.camcoat.u-net.com/

 

The manifold runs substantially cooler, exhaust gas temperature is maintained (therefore more efficient evacuation of cylinders) and mild steel and cast iron will just about last forever. The inside of the manifold is also coated.

 

I have a tubular manifold in mild steel and wanted it coated in the silver coat (less cost). There was a power failure during production which caused problems with the polishing process so they gave me the additional black coat at no charge (usually 2x the price). It is absolutely amazing. I can touch the manifold, albeit briefly, at the head after giving it a thorough thrashing. It is the treatment given to competition turbo manifolds which can reach temperatures of up to 1000°.

 

They also do ceramic coating of piston tops (better to do old ones in reasonable condition than to buy new pistons), dryfilm coating piston skirts, exhaust valve coatings, etc. All these things do come at a cost and it could be expensive and may be worth sending them here to Australia to have it done - (if you have the time). Accounting for exchange rates and postage, it may still be better that locally sourced. If anyone is interested I could make enquiries about current costs etc.

[Guest Wyn]

Thanks everyone for your comments. Roger, a very useful link. I had looked at the Zircotec Performance Coatings website and fell off my chair when I saw the prices.

 

Wyn

[Roger H]

Hi Wyn - I'm not sure about this but they can do one here for around 100GBP (to be confirmed as everything is shut now). You do the maths on your postage but postage back is not bad - would you like me to follow it up?

[Guest Wyn]

I'll pm you Roger

[Tom Fremont]

Here in the 'States ceramic coating is popular and there are several companies who offer it. I've had it done on a stock dual outlet cast iron manifold to good effect, though it started to show just a little red on the corners after a several years, and I've done it on a stainless tubular manifold which looks as new after 4 years/ 30,000+ miles.

 

If doing it on cast iron or mild steel, I would take the precaution of pre-treating the bare metal with phosporic acid next time - this could prevent rust developing through microscopic crazing over time...

[67_gt6]

They also do ceramic coating of piston tops (better to do old ones in reasonable condition than to buy new pistons), dryfilm coating piston skirts, exhaust valve coatings, etc. All these things do come at a cost and it could be expensive and may be worth sending them here to Australia to have it done - (if you have the time). Accounting for exchange rates and postage, it may still be better that locally sourced. If anyone is interested I could make enquiries about current costs etc.

 

Hi Roger, I'm interested in this but am not clear on where Australia comes in as the website is showing a Cheshire address?

 

cheers

 

Andy

[Roger H]

Sorry Andy - to clarify - I'm in Perth, Western Australia - I will update my profile to avoid further confusion.

 

WA is presently experiencing an unprecedented mineral resources boom with contracts extending into the next decade. The infrastructure needs include industrial coatings for minesite equipment which is where these products are used and we are lucky to have a company that does this locally. There are obvious applications in the domestic vehicle markets so we can get it done here fairly economically. I contacted the local company as I am very happy with the job they did on my manifold a few years ago and they told me of Camcoat in UK (I think they may be associated with them somehow). I posted the link for the benefit of everyone, but particularly in response to Wyn's initial post. I also mentioned that due to exchange rates etc, it may be an economical alternative to send them here, have them coated and then sent back.

 

I don't know what Camcoat UK prices are like, but I checked some costs here......to do a TR6 cast iron manifold here is under 200 Oz dollars (80 GBP) and a mild steel tubular manifold is 280 dollars (112 GBP). colours are satin black, silver and grey. Postage costs from WA can be checked here http://www1.auspost.com.au/pac/int_parcel.asp ....you can get prices to coat and do the postage sums at your end and figure if it is worth it. I could initiate contact for you locally if it helps (FYI I have no interest in the company other than as a past client!)

 

There are other examples of these economies - for instance, the polyeurethane TR bushes that are marketed around the world as Superflex (and sold by Chris Witor) are actually made by a Australian company from whom you can buy direct. With the GBP/AUD at about 40p per dollar, it is often far cheaper to buy them here from the manufacturer.

 

Hope this helps

Roger

 

As an aside, the resources sector here growing so rapidly that there is a real labour shortage, particularly skilled workers. The Federal Goverment is paying a one-off lump sum of $5000 per person/family for people to re-locate to WA from other parts of Australia. As a cook in the North of WA, a wage of $150,000 p.a. is common.....you never know, you might want to bring them here yourself rather than post them !!!

Edited September 1, 2006 by Roger H

[67_gt6]

Many thanks for the clarification Roger.

 

Funnily enough when I was younger I lived in Perth/Freo for a year and spent 3 months travelling up to Darwin, via a spell as a crop picker in Kununurra. I've been back to WA a few times since, most recently last Nov/Dec and so I noticed the usual symptoms of boom town - Porsches and house prices! Anyway a few nights in a tent in Dampier in January convinced me that anyone who can stick it deserves the overblown wages!

 

WA is definitely my favourite part of the world though I don't think my incipient bald spot could bear hood down in my 4A in the summer

[Eyetee]

Roger

do you have the name for the polybush manufacturer, please?

John

[67_gt6]

From Camcoat today:

 

PRICES FOR CAMCOAT TO COAT CUSTOMER EXHAUSTS Effective from 1st March 2004

 

Comments: These ceramic coatings are blended to operate at very high temperatures (“Black Satin” to 1000 degrees C) without flaking or peeling off. High polish “Cermakrome” has a lower temperature rating (760 ° C) but with exceptional durability. With the internal and external base coatings this temperature rating increases to almost 900 ° C.

The “Racespec” triple coat system is the option for any competition application where under-bonnet temperatures must be kept to a minimum.

 

Definitions:

 

Internal Coat: Either TLHB or Q-Coat (cast iron manifolds)

External coat: Either HHBK (base ceramic), BHK (“Black Satin”) or MCX (“Cermakrome”)

 

Please note:

 

1) Single coat option of BHK on stainless steel, chrome plate, Inconel or titanium items only.

2) Mild steel and cast iron manifolds must have base HHBK or Q-Coat external coat.

3) External coats HHBK and Q-Coat must have a top coat of BHK or MCX.

4) Used manifolds to be coated with MCX must have internal TLHB coat.

Strongly recommended options are:

“Racespec” TLHB/HHBK/BHK

“Coolspec” TLHB/HHBK/MCX

Optional colours are: Titanium, Royal blue, charcoal grey, silver & purple

 

Car Exhausts Single coat Double coat Triple coat

 

4 cylinder log type manifold £ 60 £ 80 £ 100

4 cylinder short pipes £ 80 £ 105 £ 135

4 cylinder long pipes £ 95 £ 125 £ 160

6 cylinder log manifold £ 85 £ 105 £ 135

6 cylinder short pipes £ 115 £ 145 £ 185

6 cylinder long pipes £ 130 £ 165 £ 215

8 cylinder short pipes £ 140 £ 180 £ 230

8 cylinder long pipes £ 165 £ 210 £ 275

Turbine housings £ 50 £ 70` £ 90

 

Motorcycle Exhausts:

 

Single cylinder pipe £ 35 £ 50 £ 60

Twin cylinder 2 into 1manifold £ 50 £ 65 £ 80

Triple cylinder 3 into 1 manifold £ 60 £ 80 £ 100

Four cylinder 4 into 1 manifold £ 75 £ 95 £ 120

Four cylinder (4 into 2 into 1 manifold) £ 90 £ 110 £ 140

 

All:

Exhaust pipe (40 mm diameter/metre length) £ 20 £ 30 £ 45

(prices for other diameters are pro-rata above)

Silencers (from) £ 40 £ 60 £ 90

Flanges £ 5 £ 10 na

 

Prices include all metal preparation. There may be a supplement for heavily used parts requiring extra cleaning.

There is a12 month guarantee against flaking and peeling on coatings applied to new metal only except for race/rally applications.

Normal lead time is 2 weeks after receipt of the goods.

Prices do not include return carriage and VAT. Camcoat can arrange for collection at the customer’s expense if required.

[Roger H]

Thats's good price info Andy - it seems pretty obvious the local company is the way to go rather than sending overseas. I had assumed your local prices were higher but as far as I'm concerned, the treatment is well worth it. Wrapping may be cheaper but eventually causes embrittlement of the metal. Coating looks smarter too.