Sean Gorvy Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 Hi I tried to start my TR5 which had been stood for a while and found whilst the battery was allowing the Bosch fuel pump to whir when I turned the key there wasn't enough juice in the battery to start the car - no surprises there. However having removed the battery, charged it up etc I then turned the key to find that the fuel pump is silent and clearly not working so the starter motor is clicking away with no fuel coming through. I have checked the fuses, I have checked all the wires connecting to the fuel pump but can't find any obvious issues. Seems very strange when all I have done is remove and replace the battery after charging it up. Any thoughts/assistance? Thanks a lot Best Sean Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ntc Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 Check the spade connector near the battery tray. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 Sean, welcome to the forum. First thing to check is if there is 12.5 or so volts at the pump. If there is, check the earth, and this is where Neil (NTC) points you to. I assume you have a TR5, which normally does not have an inertia switch. If it has, check this. Next suspect is the ignition lock, all current to the pump runs through this, if no relay is installed. Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sean Gorvy Posted August 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 Thanks guys. I have checked the spade connector. It is connected to the car body - not sure what else to check there. It is a TR5 and all very original except for usual switch to Bosch pump so I don’t believe inertia switch (not sure what this would look like if it did have one). I have called out the A.A. and will ask the mechanic to check the voltage at the pump and also the ignition lock - can you suggest how we check the ignition lock current functioning? Thanks once more for your patient guidance Best Sean Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted August 29, 2019 Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 (edited) Sean, We assume this is electric failure, but give the pump body a couple of gentle taps. Good that the earth spade is ok, it could have been disturbed while replacing the battery while it is right next to it. Now first measure the current at the pump terminal with ignition switched “on”. This should be a white wire. If the AA man arrives, it would be helpful to have a wiring diagram at hand, best A3 size. So indicate the starter motor is “clicking”, do you mean it is working properly so turning the engine with normal cranking speed? Waldi Addition: The current to the pump runs via the ignition, the AA man will know where to look, a wiring diagram will help him a lot. Edited August 29, 2019 by Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sean Gorvy Posted August 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 AA man here. We can measure 12.15 volts at the pump with ignition on first position. Perhaps the pump has suddenly “gone”. Would have thought would hear some effort or noise from the pump. Anything else we can try while he is here? Perhaps I can ring you quickly? Sean Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sean Gorvy Posted August 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 Have tried tapping the pump with a rubber hammer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sean Gorvy Posted August 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 ...we also tried boosting the electricity through the wiring to give it a bit more oomph...nothing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sean Gorvy Posted August 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 ...very strange that was working the day before I charged the battery...perhaps it picked up a bit of sediment...do I now need to replace the pump and filter for good measure? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ntc Posted August 29, 2019 Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 16 hours ago, Waldi said: Sean, welcome to the forum. First thing to check is if there is 12.5 or so volts at the pump. If there is, check the earth, and this is where Neil (NTC) points you to. I assume you have a TR5, which normally does not have an inertia switch. If it has, check this. Next suspect is the ignition lock, all current to the pump runs through this, if no relay is installed. Waldi Some did have one fitted Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steves_TR6 Posted August 29, 2019 Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 The pump could be jammed with some crud, but unlikely of you have a pre-filter do you inow what ‘bosch’ pump you have Sean? also whereabouts are you, someone local might help! steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sean Gorvy Posted August 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 Here are photos of pump and filter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sean Gorvy Posted August 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 ...I am in Marlow, Bucks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ntc Posted August 29, 2019 Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 Your pump will run dry there and will not last long,it should be below the bottom of the tank Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sean Gorvy Posted August 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 Thank you. It was fitted by T& M Classics, Thame, Oxfordshire (I don’t believe they are around anymore but had a good reputation) and I believe is in the original position where the Lucas pump was located... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ntc Posted August 29, 2019 Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 Welcome, yes it was there however the lucas pump could suck yours cannot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sean Gorvy Posted August 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 Ah...has someone come up with a better version of the Lucas? I saw something about a Mike Pumford Lucas system - nice to be more original if works! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted August 29, 2019 Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 Hi Sean, If the pump is not running at all, it could be defective. Have you tried an additional ground wire to the pump (a copper wire held to the pump negative terminal and the car body) ? 12 V at the other terminal is good, but the current needs to go back too. With ign on, tap it a bit harder, not much to loose, should dirt be the issue. The PI system is not very easy to understand, especially when there are issues. There is a lot of information on this forum, especially in the TR6 section. Filter type, pump location, earthing, best way to bring current to the pump, PRV issues, all is there. I recomment to start reading the wealth of info on here. If someone near you can come and help you as Steve suggests, that would be great. I’m overseas, so not me, sorry. Your pump could well be a Bosch ...996 pump, the filter housing looks original; the filter cartridge can best be sourced from one of the specialised TR businesses, because some, although they fit, are not correct. But before spending money on pump, filters, hoses, prv, it is better to first understand the issue. And keep them coming, those questions. Good luck, Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steves_TR6 Posted August 29, 2019 Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 That pump looks a lot like a bosch 996, fed through the original cav filter. the 996 is the best bosch pump for the TR, and is no longer made. the cav filter is ok but not ideal, and there have been cases of the ‘wrong type’ of replacement element breaking up this could block and stall the pump? my last tr6 had that exact setup, and ran fine for years. i favour replacing the cav with a disposable sytec filter, and moving the bosch pump outside of the boot into the wheelarch area, and lower as Neil says is better. i do have a known good spare 996 pump if you’d like to try that Sean? i’m in Chertsey but only until midday Friday , back wednesday. i would take the pump out and test it on the bench, the spade terminals are marked with polarity for testing, i’d try briefly reversing the polarity to see if it frees up. be careful with electricity and petrol !! steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 Hi Sean, 12.15V at the pump, engine not cranking, is probably lower than at voltage at battery, so probably the pump was drawing some current. Did it get a bit warm? If so, this indicates pump is stalled. If you disconnect the white (+) wire from the pump and measure again (then no current is flowing) is should be virtually the same as at the battery. During this, it is best to disconnect the coil to avoid overheating. If all the above is the case and a bit more tapping does not work, I would replace pump and filter. Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sean Gorvy Posted August 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 Thanks guys. I have checked the spade connector. It is connected to the car body - not sure what else to check there. It is a TR5 and all very original except for usual switch to Bosch pump so I don’t believe inertia switch (not sure what this would look like if it did have one). I have called out the A.A. and will ask the mechanic to check the voltage at the pump and also the ignition lock - can you suggest how we check the ignition lock current functioning? Thanks once more for your patient guidance Best Sean Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ntc Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 They will just check the earth by grounding it not good you must check the connector itself for earth. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 Hi Sean, you appear to have repeated (copied?) your yesterday’s post. How are things going? Cheers, Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sean Gorvy Posted August 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 Hi All Success! Spurred on by comments here I whacked the pump a bit harder this morning with the rubber handle of a screwdriver and it came back to life - miracle! Bruce from the Chiltern TR Group who has a 40 year old yellow TR6 he has had from new popped round to help and we went for a lovely spin. All good, fantastic to get the 5 back on the road. Thank you all for your patient guidance. Best Sean Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted August 31, 2019 Report Share Posted August 31, 2019 Well done Sean, The smell of succes = the smell of a running PI. Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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