Sump Gasket refitting

[foster461]

Hi.. I'm still in the process of putting things back together after fitting the overdrive. While I had the gearbox out I replaced the rear oil seal which resulted in me having to drop the oil pan because part of the sump gasket was broken up while removing the rear oil seal carrier.

 

The PO had glued the sump gasket to both the oil pan and the block using some hard setting compound. It has taken me about 4 hours to pry the oil pan loose and remove the gasket and sealant. What a mess.

 

So my question is do I need to use any sealant or should the gasket be fine on its own ?. I would normally use a very thin coat of non-setting sealant just to stick the gasket to the oil pan so it doesnt move too far while I'm refitting it but is that enough or will this thing leak if I dont plaster it with goop ?

 

Stan

[Richard Crawley]

If the sump gasket is the original cork type, a sealant compound should not be necessary; all that is needed is a smear of medium grease to hold the gasket in position while fitting & to help prevent it from sticking to the surfaces over time. Having said that you can use a smear of Blue Hylomar on each side of the gasket. Since discovering how good this stuff is, I use it all the time now but it’s relatively expensive compared to other sealants. It’s silicone based & helps prevent oil seeping through the joint over time but it will not weld itself to the steel surfaces. Never use a hard setting compound, it may stop leaks effectively but, as you found, it’s the devil of a job to separate & clean off if you are doing any work on the car. With cork gaskets it’s important (sealant or not) to use the correct torque settings for the fixings as over tightening can actually cause leaks rather than prevent them.

[foster461]

Cool. Thats what I had in mind, Hylomar Gasket Dressing just to tack the gasket in place and seal up any imperfections.

 

http://www.permatex.com/heavy_d....o=25249

 

Thanks.

[john.r.davies]

Foster,

If your PO used something so drastic, I think you can assume they had an oil leak!  No argument with the above, but spend some time 'trueing' the sump face.

 

Your PO, or PPO probably overtightened the sump bolts and may have bowed the metal surrounding the holes.   A straight edge, a suitable dolly and a light hammer will straighten them and make an oil-tight seal more likely.  The correct tightness is 16-18 ft/lbs, little more than hand tight.

 

John

[jonlar]

PO  =  Previous Owner?

[Guest ron]

Stan

When I first rebuilt the engine I put the gasket in dry, it was quite a heavy paper? gasket, it wasn't very successful as all the first summer the car left it's mark wherever it was parked.

The first winter I removed the sump and trued the flange as per John's description and fitted a new gasket using Hylomar as per the instructions on the tube, this was the first time I had used it and I'm very impressed, after two further summers the car is almost drip free.

I think it's important you check the truth of the sump flange as it's easily abused by the DPO with overdeveloped arm muscles!

Ron

[jonlar]

Ron, now you're totally confusing me: DPO..?

[Victor1155]

Foster

Having read, with respect, the previous posts whenever I have fitted any gaskets that are in close proximity to oil and can therefore suffer the dreaded oil leak I have always used a product called 'Wellseal'  :laugh:  and as its name suggests it certainly does create an oil tight seal. The added bonus is that it does not set therefore maintains its oil tight seal. It was an independent company for many years before being bought out by Hermatite so it is possible that it is available in the US, if it is not it can be obtained from a company over here called Cromwell located near Nottingham they do have a web address but I don't have it to hand at the moment.

I have used this stuff for over 30 years and only where there has been severe damage to the joint surfaces has it failed, so as John Davies suggests ensure that all joint surfaces are straight and true and you should not go far wrong.

 

Steve H    

[foster461]

Thanks again. I did true up the flange before I repainted the oil pan. The gasket remover I used should really be called Gasket Remover and Spray on Paint Stripper because it does a very effective job at both (hence the need to repaint...)

 

BTW this year I started using POR 15 products for preparing and painting rusty components after they have been cleaned up. It has been called "powder coating in a can" and seems to do a very effective job. It paints on easily, sets up fast and seems very durable with my limted experience. Is this stuff available in the UK ?. Any testimonials good or bad ?

 

 

Acronyms:

 

PO - Previous Owner, often refered to as

DPO - Dreaded Previous Owner

PPO - I'm guesing is the owner before the previous owner..

 

Not to be confused with OP, the Original Poster.

 

Hope everyone has a great bank holiday/memorial day or the equivalent where you  live and get to spend some time driving your TR instead of laying underneath it.

 

Stan

[dave-lewis]

Hi Stan,

 

Thanks for the breakdown of acronyms. I thought I was losing it. Maybe my age!

 

Greetings from hot sunny Spain,

[Guest ron]

After some of the botches I had to contend with when I bought mine FPO might have been more appropriate!!

Anyway the sun's shining for a change up here so I'm away for a run up the coast.

 

Ron

[Richard Crawley]

PO - Previous Owner, often refered to as

DPO - Dreaded Previous Owner

PPO - I'm guesing is the owner before the previous owner..

Blimey I thought it was only the PO & CS that had such a liking for acronyms; it took years to learn them all & they were used mainly to make the uninformed feel insecure!

[jonlar]

Stan, thanks for the clarification.

 

Dave, glad I'm not the only one who didn't understand these initials (despite being a Civil Servant!).

[john.r.davies]

Sorry, All,

I did't mean to be a geek, but PO is such a common construction.   I made up PPO on the spur of the moment, in parallel with DPO, in which I always thought the 'D' stood for something hotter than 'Dreaded' and everlasting.

John

[Guest ron]

Back to the sump gasket, there are a couple or more bolt holes that go through into the block, I think it is worthwhile bedding the bolts in these positions into sealant to prevent oil seeping down the threads.

Ron

[Richard Crawley]

there are a couple or more bolt holes that go through into the block, I think it is worthwhile bedding the bolts in these positions into sealant to prevent oil seeping down the threads.

Ron

A very good point; I had forgotten about these.

[foster461]

That is a good point. Are these the two rear and three front bolts or are these side bolts that intrude into areas that contain oil (some go into holes that go right through the casting and some seem to dead end in the block) ?

 

Stan

[Richard Crawley]

Are these the two rear and three front bolts or are these side bolts that intrude into areas that contain oil (some go into holes that go right through the casting and some seem to dead end in the block)

Can't remember but it should be obvious which ones they are when viewed with the sump off.

[Guest ron]

Stan

From memory [not good] there is one at the front of the block, one at the rear of the block and two go through the front alloy bridge piece, not sure about the rear alloy seal carrier but as Richard says it should be obvious with the sump off. Be gentle with these alloy parts they are very easy to strip, in fact if you can be bothered it's worth fitting them with 'Helicoils'

Ron

[foster461]

Depending on which book you use the sump to block bolts are specified as anywhere between 16 and 20 ft lbs. I used my smaller torque wrench and found even the low end required quite a bit of effort to hit 16 ft lbs so I left it at that for all bolts including the front/rear alu saddles. I'm hoping to power it up this week just to check for leaks in the sump and new rear oil seal and to check out the new clutch and overdrive. I'm still at least another week away from driving it though.

 

Stan

[Richard Crawley]

Depending on which book you use the sump to block bolts are specified as anywhere between 16 and 20 ft lbs. I used my smaller torque wrench and found even the low end required quite a bit of effort to hit 16 ft lbs so I left it at that

I go for 18 when fitting an original cork gasket.