Ethanol Again

[Dave Larnder]

Hi Tr-ers

 

I have just got back from France and Switzerland in my TR3A . While there I noticed 95 was given a sticker E10 where that garage was selling it, as not all were. Now my 3A in Spain runs on 95 all the time, so when I put in 98 to avoid E10 at some garages, the car didn´t like it, it would spit and back fire and idled very lumpily around 400/500 revs. when I put in 95 with only 5% it returned to normal. Also on the run up to France at 70-75MPH I found that the one over-rider nearest the exhaust pipe was turning a straw colour. As soon as I changed to 98 it turned blue like a motorbike exhaust pipe, and has remained so, so the old metal polish will need a bit more elbow grease to bring the chrome up again.

Now the interesting thing I found out while at Morges for the Swiss Classic British Car meeting is that one vendor was selling rubber tubing with markings on it stating for use with ethanol, he also had electric S.U. fuel pumps with similar markings.

If anybody is interested his details are as follows. (he is English)

Martin Kevill

Classic Car Services

Chemin Bovay 35

1265 La Cure

Switzerland

 

info@classiccar-services.com

www.classiccar-services.com

Phone +41 79 738 75 20

 

I gave him the address of the register and he said he will contact them as a possible vendor to any club member. Whether he does remains to be seen, but if he does, where would his details be found on the web and on this forum?

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

[lynchpin]

Hi

Found this interesting as we have just toured northern Spain in the tr4,all serviced and set up previous to leaving and initially on the trip from Sandanter to Segovia all fine until we fueled it with some 98 at a motorway service stop it was running a bit off when we arrived and the exhaust overrider and bumper quite dis coloured,the next morning i had to clean the sooted plugs and lean off the carbs, there was also evidence of a slight fuel leak at the bottom of the su"s, After fueling with some Shell and then Repsol for the rest of the time including hauling up and around the picos moutains all seemed to be well, I have yet to reset the carbs since arriving back home but all seems to be well again..

 

Phil..

[Peter Cobbold]

when I put in 98 to avoid E10 at some garages, the car didn´t like it, it would spit and back fire and idled very lumpily around 400/500 revs. when I put in 95 with only 5% it returned to normal. Also on the run up to France at 70-75MPH I found that the one over-rider nearest the exhaust pipe was turning a straw colour. As soon as I changed to 98 it turned blue like a motorbike exhaust pipe,

 

Dave,

This might be an explanation, although I suspect fuel quality in the garages tanks may be more of an issue.

 

E10 will run slightly leaner than E5 because the stoichiometric AFR for ethanol is 9 while for petrol it is 14.7.

So more ethanol than petrol – 1.63-fold by mass – is needed to theoretically completely consume the oxygen during combustion.

So adding 10% ethanol by mass, drops E10′s oxygen capacity, aka richness, to 90 + (10/1.6) = 96% of pure petrol. And for E5 we get 95+ (5/1.6) = 98%. So there's a 2% leaning in mixture strength between E10 and E5. If your carbs are set up critically for a lean mixture that might be the cause, and a lean mixture will burn a bit slower so the extra exhaust heat and that bluing would fit.

 

But on balance, I supect a 2%leaning is not going to have that big effect. So I'd go for rubbish quality fuel - E10 having twice as much ethnaol to go off.

 

Peter

 

Edit- misread your post - the 98 is ethanol-free! So if you set carbs up for E5 95RON they will run a tad richer on 98RON zero ethanol. Wont explain symptoms. Maybe the 98RON was 'off' - in some countries butane gas is allowed as octane booster - it bubbles off with age...

[Dave Larnder]

Hi Peter

Thanks for that very technical explanation, a little above my head I´m afraid to have to admit. However when I buy petrol anywhere, including in France, I always go to a high gallonage sales station to try to eliminate picking up dirty fuel or even stale fuel, and the on the two occasions I had to use 98 was from such garages like Le Clercq and other supermarkets where there is always a queue in front of me. Damn nuisance on Sundays though, as they only sell at pumps where you use a credit card and both of mine don´t appear to work at those pumps.

One thing I will say for the Frogs though, is that they don´t allow lorries to roll on Sundays unless the are refrigerated or carrying livestock, so coming back from Geneva to Nabonne on the south coast on the way home to Spain on the back roads on not on motorway or toll roads, was an absolute pleasure, but don´t try it on Mondays. I´m sure Badfrog will be pleased to hear that my impression of French byways is very favourable, but oh! those roundabouts every 2-3 kms does drive you a bit mad and certainly slows you down, so maybe that´s the reason behind them.

Just to record that the total amount of money spent on tolls for both counties, there and back, totalled €150.50, and that breaks my heart it being the last imposition that they can put on the motorist. If anyone is contemplating coming south in Spain from Barcelona to Valencia the toll is €35.90 each way.

Sorry! getting away from the subject again.

 

Dave

[Peter Cobbold]

If the 98RON was lead replacement it may contain apotassium additive used in France to protect exh valve seats. That might be fouling plugs- hence misfiring.

 

E10 95RON should be safe, providing E5 used when stored.