Mike Graham Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Can someone help interpret the repair manual please. During reassembly instructions, the manual states "Follow with the two piston washers, ensuring that the curved washers are toward the rubber cups." I am thinking that this means the curve (concave) goes toward the rubber cup. Does that make sense ... so it goes in like this " ) " against the rubber? Cheers, Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PhilCollins Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Hi Mike, I assume you are working on the Lockheed dual master cylinder (brake and clutch). If not, ignore this post. It sounds as though you are using the same manual as I do. The words come from the "Service Instruction Manual", chapter on Brakes, paragraph 22 (e). I rebuilt my similar master cylinder a year or so ago and to the best of my memory it went together exactly as shown on Figure 3 of that chapter. I have attached a copy of Fig 3 to this post. If you save it as a jpeg then open it with Windows Picture and Fax reader you can zoom in and see the detail. The nearest thing to concave washers that I saw were the two "spring retainers", item 11 in the figure, which sit on the end of the spring before the rubber cups (seals) are fitted. Once you have put the seal in the bore the next item I recall is a wavey washer, item 13 in the figure, followed by the piston. One washer per bore; two per master cylinder. The spring retainers prevent the spring from working into and damaging the seal so make sure they are on the end of the springs. In use, when you take your foot back off the pedal, fluid flows from the brake system back into the master cylinder and appears a little like a water spout in the reservoir. As the cylinders were originally assembled this corresponded with the filler cap location. The fluid tended to hit the bottom of the cap, and some would creep out onto the outside of the unit. An in service mod was to reverse the fitting of the top plate so that the filler cap sits up at the bulkhead end of the reservoir rather than the radiator end to eliminate the leak. The last bit of advice is that the Lockheed system uses BSF rather than unified threads for some of the pipe fittings, so if you buy new hoses or other items, make sure they fit easily. If they go tight after a turn or so, the thread forms are wrong. Forcing them on will damage the fittings and risk the integrity of the hydraulic system Bear in mind your and others' security depend on this item, so if in doubt go to a specialist. Keep it all clean. Good luck, Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Graham Posted February 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Hi Phil Thanks for the detailed reply. Yes, dual MC. I believe I have all reassembled as per the diagram. My question was regarding what you call the wavy washer. As I followed along with the instructions, the manual seemed to be referring to the placement of the wavy washer in relation to rubber cup. That is where the statement "the curved washers are toward the rubber cups" come into play. Does it really matter which side of the washer is against the rubber cup? The wavy washer goes between the cup and piston for sure, but is the washer "sided" as I gather from this statement. Hope my explanation is clear. Cheers, Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
2long Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) Are there any other tips to keep these dual units from weeping around the cap and top cover? It seems simple enough but I still get a few drips of brake fluid down into the passenger compartment as it works through the pedal box and down. I am pretty sure it is coming from the cap and top cover, but hard for me to tell. Dan Edited February 2, 2013 by 2long Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Graham Posted February 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Dan. I have still not been able to drive my car, so not much help. I plan to install top as suggested by Phil. Had seen that service bulletin before. Maybe some sealant on one surface of the cork gasket? Maybe a silicone gasket would work better, but have not heard of one being available. Cheers, Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PhilCollins Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Sorry for the belated response. I am not an expert but, the wavy washer is symmetrical- you can fit it any way around. It just cushions the forces from the piston onto the seal. In my limited experience some weeping of fluid from the top seems to be normal even after swopping around the direction of the top plate. I put it down to two things- brake fluid has low surface tension which means it finds every nook and cranny, and the nature of the filler cap. Mine looks to be two pieces of polythene- an inner cone within the outer cap. I suspect an appropriate washer at the end of the cap's thread would improve things. (Perhaps a suitable thin 'O' ring? Best wishes, Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PhilCollins Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Mike, I have just seen your other thread on m/c problems. I run a TR2 with later disc brakes using the Lockheed cylinder. Just as Les comments, I also have removed the bits at the bottom of the brake cylinder. I think with discs (where the seals/boots on the pistons have a small self return effect) you are better off without the bits. If you are still on front drums you might wish to retain them. Unless you transatlantic guys drive with crossed legs, I think you will find that the marking of 'brake' and 'clutch' in the manual are correct- the push rods face the front of the car not the rear. Lastly I,too, am doubtful about bleeding using a suction device. I can imagine it drawing air down into the system. Old fashioned two person pedalling or the so called "Easibleed" pressure device for me. Good luck, Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Graham Posted February 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Phil. Thanks for the further information. Yes, the manual is correct in terms of the diagram, but the parts manual has the components reversed. Hopefully my latest work on the MC will address the issues I was having. Cheers, Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR24178 Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Mike, I have just seen your other thread on m/c problems. I run a TR2 with later disc brakes using the Lockheed cylinder. Just as Les comments, I also have removed the bits at the bottom of the brake cylinder. I think with discs (where the seals/boots on the pistons have a small self return effect) you are better off without the bits. If you are still on front drums you might wish to retain them. Unless you transatlantic guys drive with crossed legs, I think you will find that the marking of 'brake' and 'clutch' in the manual are correct- the push rods face the front of the car not the rear. Lastly I,too, am doubtful about bleeding using a suction device. I can imagine it drawing air down into the system. Old fashioned two person pedalling or the so called "Easibleed" pressure device for me. Good luck, Phil Hi Phil I too am using the dual M/c with discs, where do I find the other thread or what do you mean 'remove the bits from the bottom of the m/c' Regards John Worthing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Mike - As originator of this thread, and from Leith originally, I suppose you already knew that. Cheers Don Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PhilCollins Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 John (Worthing) The earlier thread is "56 TR3 Master Cylinder Issues" on this sidescreen forum, begun 13 Jan 2013. As originally built, the brake side of the master cylinder has a small assembly right at the bottom of the bore. The purpose appears to be to prevent the brake shoe pull off springs from fully retracting the brake shoes after a brake application by retaining some positive pressure in the brake lines even though the piston of the master cylinder has fully retracted. This would take up some extra adjustment so that on next application the brakes come on right away. This is supposition on my part. If you fit discs at the front, the design of the caliper pistons' seals and the dust boots is intended to control the return of the pistons after you take your foot off the pedal. Like most I have talked to with this set up, removing the assembly in the master cylinder reduces the tendency for the brake pads to rub lightly on the disc all the time. Certainly that's how it worked for me. Best wishes, Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR24178 Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Thanks Phil I will study the topic and thanks for the explaination Regards John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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