Is it normal?Cooling again.

[GEORGIE]

Hallo to everyone this is my first time I write in this forum and first time about my TR4 since I only have it for six months now.I bought it from a guy here in Greece who imported it from U.S. and it is generaly in a very good condition now, after I overhauled the gearbox and changed some gagkets here and there in the engine.The only minor leak still existing is at the front of the differential (where the trive shaft attaches).

The main problem I face now is in the cooling of the car and I explain what I mean.The car is equiped with an oil cooler and an electric fan, also the original steel fan has been changed to a more efficient plastic.During winter and spring everything was OK with the temperature reading from 75 to80C (170-180F).in the summer though and at temperatures 30-35C (90-95F) the indicating temperatures in light traffic are at 85-90C (185-205F).Once in a heavy traffic jam the indicator showed nearly100C (212F).

I took the car to a specialist who flushed the whole system (not only the radiator),he didnt find anything (exces debris,rust etc.) wrong and also verified that the readings of the indicator are quite accurate.The thermostat is also for hot climates and the radiator has been recored sometime in the past since there is no starting crank hole on it.The only remark i want to make is that the oil cooler is at the front and top of the radiator obscuring 1/3 of it and the electric fan too low at the front of the radiator again blowing on the 1/3 of it.

I would be obliged if you could give me your opinion about if you think there is really a problem with the cars cooling system or it is normal for a car of this age and at such high external temperatures to behave like this,so I must reduce my summer rides to only evening ones when it is cooler.

Finally please let me know if the fixing of the diff leak requires the removal of the whole back axle or just the drive shaft (as in my Land Rover).

 

Thank you

 

George

[Menno van Rij]

Hi George, welcome! Diffs aren't my strongest point, so I'm not able to answer that question.

First, does you car have the cardboard air duct (as you can see on the pic here, the black cardboard piece in front of the radiator. You really need one. It guides all air through the radiator.

Second, is the electric fan mounted correctly / does it turn in the correct way: in front of the engine? Pushing the air through the rad.

 

Since I live in Holland, temps above 30 degrees are not common. So I found you a comment from a guy in California about his TR3, but this applies to the TR4 as well. Where he mentions de Hayden fan, I would suggest a Pacet fan.

 

Common believe overhere in northern Europe is that an oil cooler is a waist of money. A TR can live without. But then again, it's not Greece! I would suggest that you make up some sort of cradle lowering the oil cooler under the radiator and I remember seeing a TR4 (?) with the cooler mounted sideways, next to the radiator, but not blocking the radiator.

 

Chuck,

Living in the So California desert I am well aware of overheating TR-3 cars. After much advice from my TRSC club members, I have once and for all solved the overheating problem, even in 120 degree days(and nights). In the process of solving the problem, here is what I did.

1. Install the cardboard baffle to funnel the air thru the radiator.

2. Install a breakaway ( 1/8" fiber board) air scoop below the radiator. Mount it on the bolts that hold the hand crank guide. Without it, one third of the radiator does not get use.

3. Since the original slide thermostats are no longer available, the by-pass hose is of no of use. Thread a pipe plug inside the hose to block it. Then, make sure you drill a 3/16" hole through the thermostat to have water flow before the tempurature opens it..

4. Install a Hayden fan in front of the radiator. Do not waste your money on a temp probe since they don't work. Instead, install a manual swith on the dash. In slow traffic, the fan is a must.

5. Finally, the final solution was to recore the radiator with a core with 1/3 more tubes and NO hand crank hole.

6. I also had the radiator shop braze on a Chevrolet filler fitting so that a modern radiator cap can be used to direct the overflow to a catch tank I located forward of the right front horn. With the Chevvy radiator, when it cools, the collant returns to the radiator. DO NOT attempt to use a high pressure radiator cap since the added pressure will unseat the water pump seal and the pump will leak. 7 Psi is the max pressure.

Note: I had the old radiator rodded out twice thinking that was the problem. Bear in mind that these radiators were designed for British weather and not US weather.

Note 2. Since I once owned a new original TR-3 in 1959 and ran it in the desert at the time without any overheating, I am convince that a lot of our problems stem from the reformalation of gasoline. New cars run much hotter to reduce pollution.

By evolution I have solved the overheating. I believe the Hayden fan and the new radiator core were the prime items in solving this problem. I have no more overheating, even in the Summer.

 

Menno

 

Edited September 10, 2011 by Menno van Rij

[GEORGIE]

Thank you Menno, yes there is a curboard air duct and both fans electric and original are turning in the right way. I check if I can relocate the oil cooler out of the way so installing the electric fan at the center of the radiator.

Please give me an idea what temperature readings do you get when you are moving slowly in B roads (40-50KMH) in a hot day in Holland?

Thank you again George

[Menno van Rij]

Steady just below (left) of the 185 mark. In traffic jams, the needle rises to a position just past the 185 mark. Then the fan starts working. Mind you, when you have both fans working, things should be okay! Did you check your temperature gauge? The volt stabilizer in a TR4 is sometimes broken. If so, temp and fuel gauge give a wrong reading. How's your fuel gauge? Does it give you correct readings?

 

Menno

[pfenlon]

Georgie the diff is a simple fix, as your land rover, off with the propshaft, remove nut pull off flange remove old seal with big screwdriver, you know the rest.

[Smokey]

For the pinion oil seal,add a Speedi-sleeve: the flange itself is likely to be worn,and will still leak with a new seal. Re the overheating, if you bring it all back to original condition, it will be ok up to 95 degrees. Probably the most important part, after a modern recore, is to THROUGHLY AND COMPLETELY CLEAN THE INSIDE OF THE BLOCK. After recoring the rad, plus a five-vane water pump (you'll hear different opinions on that) and removal of every trace of build-up in the block - NOT an easy job - I can let the car idle for half an hour in 95 degree weather and the needle sticks at 185. I do have a tropical six-bladed fan, which sort of became a standard retrofit in the southern US. However, my 1965 TRT4, which I drove for 50,000 miles in the late 1960s, had the four-blade fan, and I never had an overheating problem. I don't have an electric fan.

[GEORGIE]

For the pinion oil seal,add a Speedi-sleeve: the flange itself is likely to be worn,and will still leak with a new seal. Re the overheating, if you bring it all back to original condition, it will be ok up to 95 degrees. Probably the most important part, after a modern recore, is to THROUGHLY AND COMPLETELY CLEAN THE INSIDE OF THE BLOCK. After recoring the rad, plus a five-vane water pump (you'll hear different opinions on that) and removal of every trace of build-up in the block - NOT an easy job - I can let the car idle for half an hour in 95 degree weather and the needle sticks at 185. I do have a tropical six-bladed fan, which sort of became a standard retrofit in the southern US. However, my 1965 TRT4, which I drove for 50,000 miles in the late 1960s, had the four-blade fan, and I never had an overheating problem. I don't have an electric fan.

 

What is the SPEEDI SLEEVE Smokie and where can I find it ?

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

see this thread on Speedi Sleeve

http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=30979

 

Peter W

[GEORGIE]

Thanks guys you've been most helpfull,I think I relocate the oil cooler and all be OK.

[Menno van Rij]

Here's a pic of a TR3(A) with the oil cooler in front of the radiator. The oil cooler is tilted forward. I don't know if this is possible with a TR4. One advise though: if you position the oil cooler low(er), make sure it's protected against stones etc! A wire mesh in front of the cooler is a good idea, I think!

 

Menno

 

[BrianC]

Not that I have or need one, but I have seen oil coolers mounted either horizontally below the front valance with suitable metal removal and grille addition, or vertically at the side of the radiator. The vertical fitment probably aids water cooling as well if the cardboard ducting is missing (something else I've never had or needed on either of my TR3As).

[ I guess this latter option is OK for TR3A or TR4 but not TR2 and TR3 with narrow grilles, nor TR4A onwards with wider rads.]

[GEORGIE]

Thank you again guys I've allready removed the oil cooler aside and tomorow noon (35 C expected) I will give it a try. One other thing though is that the indicator gauge I have, reads at the center 70 C ((160 F aprox.) and up to 100 C,the ones shown at Rimmer Bross catalogues read at the center 85 C and 120 max.What I am saying is that when the needle in my gauge stays midway between 70 and 100 C is actualy 85 C ,quite normal I guess.

Does anybody by the way knows what speedi sleeve should I order along with the pinion oil seal (dimension ,code No) because nobody seems to now enything about their existance in Greece,and I would like to have it delivered before dismantling to take measures.

 

Thanks again George

[Smokey]

Moss USA sells the correct Speedi-Sleeve for the pinion seal. A little pricier than buying directly from the manufacturer, but it will fit. It's Moss USA part number 520-500, and is expensive at $47, but it works. If someone can provide the measurement, then you can order directly from the suppier SKF.