Oil Additives

[Rog]

When I was a lot younger than I am today we always seemed to be bombarded with advertising for oil additives. You know the sort of thing "add just one ounce of super slippy molytefloncarbonfluid" and your bearings will run smoother forever, your fuel consumption will halve and your oil change frequency will increase by a factor of 3. Oh yes, and the vehicle will pull stronger, last longer and run almost silently"

 

Appreciating that several decades have passed since those heady, not to say pioneering days, and I assume oil technology has also come a long way. But seriously what do you think? Products such as Molyslip, STP, et al - are they worth considering?

 

Clearly there is no substitute for good maintenance practice but do these additives help to minimise bearing and gear wear?

 

Cheers

 

Rog

[88V8]

Appreciating that several decades have passed since those heady, not to say pioneering days, and I assume oil technology has also come a long way. But seriously what do you think? Products such as Molyslip, STP, et al - are they worth considering?

I used STP in an old banger with poor oil pressure, but the effect was short-lived.

 

Have used Molyslip in a notchy gearbox, it did make a difference.

Their oil additive is the only one I would consider in an engine, but that's based mainly on prejudice.

 

I suppose these PTFE additives must also do something, there have been tests where cars have been driven long distances with no oil in the engine, depending solely on the residual effect of the additive.

 

Trouble with all these things, you can measure the effect on your pocket, but it's harder to tell if they really work...

 

Ivor

[Ragtag]

I suppose these PTFE additives must also do something, there have been tests where cars have been driven long distances with no oil in the engine, depending solely on the residual effect of the additive.

 

No names no packdrill but somebody's dad might have done this test on a newish Mk 3 Cortina, pulling a caravan to the south of France! The engine suffered no obvious ill effects, going on to cover another 100k miles for him and finally ending up powering my brother's Mk1 Escort rally car

[Rog]

I used STP in an old banger with poor oil pressure, but the effect was short-lived.

 

Have used Molyslip in a notchy gearbox, it did make a difference.

Their oil additive is the only one I would consider in an engine, but that's based mainly on prejudice.

 

I suppose these PTFE additives must also do something, there have been tests where cars have been driven long distances with no oil in the engine, depending solely on the residual effect of the additive.

 

Trouble with all these things, you can measure the effect on your pocket, but it's harder to tell if they really work...

 

Ivor

I couldn't agree more; I'm not sure I've ever really noticed a definite benefit in the past. When I have sucombed to the marketing hype I think I've tended to rationalise the time, trouble and cost involved with assumed (imaginary) benefits.

 

On the other hand, Chris' story makes a pretty compelling case and to be honest (despite my in-built sceptism) I am considering treating the back axle and gearbox. I can hear a chorus of "if it ain't broke don't fix it"

 

Rog

[bob]

I couldn't agree more; I'm not sure I've ever really noticed a definite benefit in the past. When I have sucombed to the marketing hype I think I've tended to rationalise the time, trouble and cost involved with assumed (imaginary) benefits.

 

On the other hand, Chris' story makes a pretty compelling case and to be honest (despite my in-built sceptism) I am considering treating the back axle and gearbox. I can hear a chorus of "if it ain't broke don't fix it"

 

Rog

 

Rog,

 

I'm sure you'll get a more authoritative answer than mine, but I heard that if you have an overdrive gearbox you definitley shouldn't put additive in as the overdrive shares the gearbox oil and said additive affects the operation of the overdrive clutch assembly!

[Bald Rick]

Rog

 

Many years ago a family convoy of half a dozen cars (aunts, uncles, cousins etc) used to load up and head off to the Costa Blanca for a couple of weeks every summer.

 

One year, 3 days before we were due to leave, one of my uncle's car, a 100E, developed a nasty big end knock.

 

There was nothing we could do in 3 days so we drained off some of the oil and put in a couple of cans of STP.

 

He drove it all the way to Calpe and back, fully laden with wife and two kids, roof rack et al, without incident. The route was over the Pyrenees both ways and kept up with the rest of us without any difficulty (as far as you can in a 100E!).

 

Don't know how long it would have kept going because I helped him change the conrods when we got back (they were white metalled).

 

Apart from using Wynns when rebuilding engines this is my only experience of oil addatives.Cheers

 

Tony

[Rog]

Rog,

 

I'm sure you'll get a more authoritative answer than mine, but I heard that if you have an overdrive gearbox you definitley shouldn't put additive in as the overdrive shares the gearbox oil and said additive affects the operation of the overdrive clutch assembly!

 

Thanks Bob and you are spot on. The molyslip packs carry that precise warning - do not use with O/d

 

Rog

[Rog]

Rog

 

Many years ago a family convoy of half a dozen cars (aunts, uncles, cousins etc) used to load up and head off to the Costa Blanca for a couple of weeks every summer.

 

One year, 3 days before we were due to leave, one of my uncle's car, a 100E, developed a nasty big end knock.

 

There was nothing we could do in 3 days so we drained off some of the oil and put in a couple of cans of STP.

 

He drove it all the way to Calpe and back, fully laden with wife and two kids, roof rack et al, without incident. The route was over the Pyrenees both ways and kept up with the rest of us without any difficulty (as far as you can in a 100E!).

 

Don't know how long it would have kept going because I helped him change the conrods when we got back (they were white metalled).

 

Apart from using Wynns when rebuilding engines this is my only experience of oil addatives.Cheers

 

Thanks Tony. Like Chris, thats a pretty convincing experience. Can you recall if the knock disappeared after the treatment?

 

Rog

 

Tony

[Bald Rick]

Rog

 

The knock did disappear after adding the STP. As I remember it was about 50%STP and 50% Duckhams. Also, on the Ford 100E the big end bearings were white metalled, i.e. the bearing "white" metal is cast directly onto the conrod. There is no "shell bearing"so the bearing metal tends to be thicker and as it doesn't have shells they can't rotate in the conrod causing irrepairable damage to the conrod and crank. In other words the risk factor is a lot less.

 

Not sure I understand this now that I've written it!

 

Hope this helps

 

Tony

[Rog]

Rog

 

The knock did disappear after adding the STP. As I remember it was about 50%STP and 50% Duckhams. Also, on the Ford 100E the big end bearings were white metalled, i.e. the bearing "white" metal is cast directly onto the conrod. There is no "shell bearing"so the bearing metal tends to be thicker and as it doesn't have shells they can't rotate in the conrod causing irrepairable damage to the conrod and crank. In other words the risk factor is a lot less.

 

Not sure I understand this now that I've written it!

 

Hope this helps

 

Tony

Yeah, understood Tony and thats an arrangement which is going to be much more robust than replaceable shells.

For good or ill I've now added an ounce of Molyslip to the differential and if I can actually detect a difference (although I'm not sure what I'll be looking for - perhaps a change in tone or volume in any axle noise or - heavens forbid - vibration ) I'll report back.

 

Rog

[Geoff Davies]

I would not use in engine applications as I will explain.

 

Oil is designed to do a multitude of things,

 

Seperate moving parts so that they dont ware, reduce friction, cool, prevent corrosion, act as a detergent removing carbon deposits etc and then keep them suspended in the oil until they are trapped by the oil filter. Oil is designed to adhere to the parts of an engine applying a very thin coat of oil.

 

The reason not to use a PTFE additive is that whilst the PTFE stops things sticking (making slippier) it also stops the oil sticking and so prevents the oil doing its job. The additives that contain PTFE also do not stick to the parts themselves so allows the parts that touch to have no protection.

 

Modern oil is a base oil that is often bought from the same refiner then it goes to be blended with additives packs. The more expensive the oil often the better the additive pack.

 

I work in the Truck industry and we do a lot of work with oil manufactures and when you see the difference in specifications etc it is an eye opener.

 

I have a link to the tech website that I maybe able to let you see but need to check first.

 

I think the reason the additives appear to reduce noise is just that they make the oil thicker.

 

The right thing is use the correct spec oil for the engine manufactured to rather than meets as the later doesnt need to prove that it is that spec. I would also add that on a personal level I change the oil on a very regualr basis and in the TR use Millers classic 20w50 and it performs well.

 

We use some very advanced oils in trucks now that have drain periods of over 60,000kms and you will see that trucks that use the better oils get improved mpg of some time an extra mile or so to the gallon which with a truck doing 8 - 9 mpg that is a signifcant improvement and cost saving.

 

I would also add that any contaniment ruins the effect of the oil that is already in there so top up with the right oil as well as at the oil change.

 

Sorry to be an anorak.

 

Geoff

[Shezbo]

Got to agree with Geoff-I know someone who does work for oil companies and tests/investigates oil, via slip, seperation and shear qualities and his advice is use the correct oil and change it often-no need for any additives.

 

ATB

[Rog]

I would not use in engine applications as I will explain.

 

Oil is designed to do a multitude of things,

 

Seperate moving parts so that they dont ware, reduce friction, cool, prevent corrosion, act as a detergent removing carbon deposits etc and then keep them suspended in the oil until they are trapped by the oil filter. Oil is designed to adhere to the parts of an engine applying a very thin coat of oil.

 

The reason not to use a PTFE additive is that whilst the PTFE stops things sticking (making slippier) it also stops the oil sticking and so prevents the oil doing its job. The additives that contain PTFE also do not stick to the parts themselves so allows the parts that touch to have no protection.

 

Modern oil is a base oil that is often bought from the same refiner then it goes to be blended with additives packs. The more expensive the oil often the better the additive pack.

 

I work in the Truck industry and we do a lot of work with oil manufactures and when you see the difference in specifications etc it is an eye opener.

 

I have a link to the tech website that I maybe able to let you see but need to check first.

 

I think the reason the additives appear to reduce noise is just that they make the oil thicker.

 

The right thing is use the correct spec oil for the engine manufactured to rather than meets as the later doesnt need to prove that it is that spec. I would also add that on a personal level I change the oil on a very regualr basis and in the TR use Millers classic 20w50 and it performs well.

 

We use some very advanced oils in trucks now that have drain periods of over 60,000kms and you will see that trucks that use the better oils get improved mpg of some time an extra mile or so to the gallon which with a truck doing 8 - 9 mpg that is a signifcant improvement and cost saving.

 

I would also add that any contaniment ruins the effect of the oil that is already in there so top up with the right oil as well as at the oil change.

 

Sorry to be an anorak.

 

Geoff

Not an anorak at all Geoff; a very well reasoned case if I may say so. I actually agree with much of what you say and personally change 20/50 Duckhams in the engine every six months.

 

As mentioned earlier, I have treated my diff and reconciled some of your points by the extreme pressure created by the meshing gears. If I've created a disaster for myself (or notice some benefit or other) I'll report back the outcome.

Thanks for taking the trouble to comment Geoff

Rog

[jobster]

Thanks Bob and you are spot on. The molyslip packs carry that precise warning - do not use with O/d

 

Rog

could someone explain what happens if you've managed to NOT read the warnings. Is it a total O/D unrepairable break down matter?

[Nick Webster]

Geoff Davies has it all pretty well covered, but just to add my 2d worth based on 31 years in the oil business (not any more - I slipped away )

 

One thing that seems to unite many of the posts above is the phrase "years ago" or similar. Indeed, "years ago" additives did enjoy a wave of popularity and perhaps with reason, given the fairly basic oil specifications from some manufacturers. Now, technology has moved on and many of the additive properties come as standard, even if perhaps not using the same chemicals. The really important thing is to remember that mixing additives is usually not a good idea and since you do not know for sure what is in the oil it is best not to suppose you can improve on it and then assess your results on a fairly subjective basis.

 

Nick

[88V8]

could someone explain what happens if you've managed to NOT read the warnings. Is it a total O/D unrepairable break down matter?

It will make the clutches slip. Eventually they will overheat and distort, then byebye.

You need to get rid of it.

Drain the oil, fill with fresh, drive it gently 20 miles, with and without o/d, drain again whilst hot.

Refill.

Pray.

 

Ivor

[jobster]

don't know whether this is the reason for not being able to engage any gear, either running or motor off. I mean, I can choose and put in any gear but no drive. Still need to look into it.

And praying is not my cup of tea, especially not re TR6's. They run, or they don't and IMHO divine interference does not have anything to do with that......

[88V8]

don't know whether this is the reason for not being able to engage any gear, either running or motor off. I mean, I can choose and put in any gear but no drive. Still need to look into it.

And praying is not my cup of tea, especially not re TR6's. They run, or they don't and IMHO divine interference does not have anything to do with that......

Sometimes I wish for divine intervention, often it's lacking, altho yesterday I had what would normally have been a call-out-the-tow-truck breakdown, but it happened just as I arrived at Silverstone to join a garage full of well-equipped Triumph nuts, consequently I was able to limp 75 miles home. Let's just call it luck

No gears, eh.... with the o/d disengaged you should have normal drive through the gearbox, so no not the Molyslip I'm afraid.

Give us more symptoms, start a new Topic.

 

Ivor

[jobster]

Sometimes I wish for divine intervention, often it's lacking, altho yesterday I had what would normally have been a call-out-the-tow-truck breakdown, but it happened just as I arrived at Silverstone to join a garage full of well-equipped Triumph nuts, consequently I was able to limp 75 miles home. Let's just call it luck

No gears, eh.... with the o/d disengaged you should have normal drive through the gearbox, so no not the Molyslip I'm afraid.

Give us more symptoms, start a new Topic.

 

Ivor

tx Ivor, I had already started the topic on this here. I am hauling it off to the workshop this friday to also be able to have a look underneath the car and will post my findings. Any clues as to what to look out for or test are welcome.

[88V8]

tx Ivor, I had already started the topic on this here. I am hauling it off to the workshop this friday to also be able to have a look underneath the car and will post my findings. Any clues as to what to look out for or test are welcome.

Oops, so you did

 

Errm, jack up one rear wheel, rotate the wheel by hand, if the propshaft turns then the diff and the driveshafts are OK.

Put the car in any gear, try to rotate the wheel by hand, it should not be possible. If the propshaft turns then the problem is in the gearbox/clutch.

Or, as Roger has said in your other thread, the main shaft of the overdrive - I had not considered that this might be broken.

 

Ivor

[jobster]

Oops, so you did

 

Errm, jack up one rear wheel, rotate the wheel by hand, if the propshaft turns then the diff and the driveshafts are OK.

Put the car in any gear, try to rotate the wheel by hand, it should not be possible. If the propshaft turns then the problem is in the gearbox/clutch.

Or, as Roger has said in your other thread, the main shaft of the overdrive - I had not considered that this might be broken.

 

Ivor

 

Tx Ivor, that's a useful and easy to do hint. Will give it a try right now.

[jobster]

Oops, so you did

 

Errm, jack up one rear wheel, rotate the wheel by hand, if the propshaft turns then the diff and the driveshafts are OK.

Put the car in any gear, try to rotate the wheel by hand, it should not be possible. If the propshaft turns then the problem is in the gearbox/clutch.

Or, as Roger has said in your other thread, the main shaft of the overdrive - I had not considered that this might be broken.

 

Ivor

Thanks, tried it.

 

gearbox/clutch definitely.