Where to get an early 4 Steering rack??

[MikeF]

HI, the rack on my early 4 is on its way out, it got through the MOT with a sniff from the tester, and jsut recently the column joint started slipping on the pinion splines, I fixed that for now as it was a mis -ssembly by one of unknown previous owners, but it has left the pinion splines reduced. I used a later 6 UJ coupling in this to max grip on splines, light years from the rubber doughnut type.

I have been quoted times of 6 weeks through a long time to never on reconditioning my rack. Or I can remove old ears from chassis and weld on later type fittings to fit a later rack if I can find one or a modern replacement.

I have read as many of the previous threads as I can find, and it seems to me that there is a lot of opinion, some wise and informed , some not and a few facts. But none specifically on this aspect.

 

Does the later type fitting really make that much difference? Should I just go for the later rack or persevere with the older type is my dilemna? Oriiginality is always nice, but functionality /safety is preferred if its an alternative

I have about 2" free travel at the steering wheel followed by about 4" of squidgy travel. Its hard to be more precise as with the road wheels jacked up , the road wheels follow the steering wheel pretty exactly, you need to be driving about for the squidge. A lot of this could be wear in rubber suspension mounts , tyre tread squirm (they are near brand new) and so on and not movement in the ears as implied in the restore books.

This looks like being a winter job, but could be an all Summer job getting the bits lined up.

 

Would appeciate some inputs here.

 

 

Mike

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Mike,

 

I'd suggest a cautious approach on this one. It's easy to blame the rack, when in fact there may be a number of wear elements, each modest in itself, adding up to a lot of cumulative movement in total.

 

In my experience, if the rack is well and truly hammered, then this will be clearly evident with the car in the air - supported on the chassis, and the wheels hanging free and clear. If rack wear isn't then immediately obvious, a fair proportion at least of your problem lies elsewhere . . .

 

The new-style MoT 'shaker plates' can be an absolute boon here - they give the front suspension and steering enough exercise that an experienced mechanic can quickly spot individual areas of deficiency. I've seen at the MoT garage which I use just how useful the 'shaker plates' can be. Two instances I've seen recently where modern cars have failed despite having replacement racks - quite likely the original racks had been OK, a semi-skilled fitter had taken the easy way out and simply replaced a rack rather than looking deeper . . .

 

Tyres - low pressure and/or excessively wide section can contribute at least some 'squidginess'. You mention the tyres being almost new - what are they ?

 

Suspension rubber - some of the modern repro compounds seem to be remarkably short-lived in comparison with the originals, in terms of both mileage and calendar age. One reason for the popularity of poly replacements

 

If I was in your position, the first thing I'd do is check tyres. Then I'd get it on the shaker plates, under the eagle eye of a mechanic who knows old cars.

 

Hopefully that's not teaching grannie to suck eggs ?

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Rhodri]

I responded earlier about the difficulty in obtaining an early rack. I got a recon rack, but unfortunately damaged the housing slightly when fitting it. There are two tiny dowels in the clamps and I was slightly off-target when I tightened them, thus squeezing the housing onto the rack making it tight to move. I will repair this later, but I had another rack with a different part number. The measurements were the same as my damaged rack, except for the dowel hole in the left hand end- it was in a different place. All it needed was redrilling that one hole. It was sold to me as an early TR4 rack, but I don't know which Triumph it was off originally. The pics attached show the modification to stiffen the vertical mountings if you want to. If you decide to weld on later horizontal mounts I have some new CTM ones for sale- I was undecided as you are!

Rod

[MikeF]

Thanks guys, most helpful and the pictures are neat.

It is impossible to teach me to suck eggs on this, all help appreciated.

I did correct the location of the rack to get dowels in place. [as well as upper column and lower column faults mentioned before] when I put every thing back together. Like many others I am finding that my car has lots of little wrong things all over it - but it looks great!

 

So now I'm thinking waht the heck is a shaker plate amongst other thigns.

The movement at the wheel is how much the wheel turns when I turn the column by twisting the UJ on the co,umn before the steering wheels move when jacked. When doing it at the wheel you can feel the resistance come on and then road wheels move. So I thin that must be the rack and the squidge is every thing else. The tyres are about 1000 miles, can't remeber the name now I think Fulba or Fulder something like that (the car is half a mile down the road and in this eather that is a light year, so excuse me not popping out to check.

I wil lhave a chat with my local expert on Monday. He is familar with old cars being ex Longbridge development and rectification trained, The only thing I don't get is taht he is quite unashamed to have been there instead of in a proper Coventry factory!

 

Mike

[MikeF]

Thanks guys, most helpful and the pictures are neat.

It is impossible to teach me to suck eggs on this, all help appreciated.

I did correct the location of the rack to get dowels in place. [as well as upper column and lower column faults mentioned before] when I put every thing back together. Like many others I am finding that my car has lots of little wrong things all over it - but it looks great!

 

So now I'm thinking what the heck is a shaker plate amongst other things.

The movement at the wheel is how much the wheel turns when I turn the column by twisting the UJ on the column before the steering wheels move when jacked. When doing it at the wheel you can feel the resistance come on and then road wheels move. So I thin that must be the rack and the squidge is every thing else. The tyres are about 1000 miles, can't remember the name now I think Fulba or Fulder something like that (the car is half a mile down the road and in this weather that is a light year, so excuse me not popping out to check.

I will have a chat with my local expert on Monday. He is familiar with old cars being ex Longbridge development and rectification trained, The only thing I don't get is that he is quite unashamed to have been there instead of in a proper Coventry factory!

 

Mike

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Mike,

 

Shaker plate ? What it says on the tin !

 

The new-generation MoT ramps have on the front end of each ramp a movable plate, wheron the front wheels sit.

 

Press the button and these plates leap into action, rocking and rolling like Chubby Checker trying to avoid getting rogered by Jerry Lee. This gives the steering and suspension an instant workout, and you can get a much better idea of what is going on whilst standing under the car. And of course, if required the lift beam can raise the car on its suspension too. All in all, a handy diagnostic tool.

 

Tyres are presumably Fulda - and the size ?

 

The steering wheel free movement, before corresponding road wheel movement, may well be rack, agreed, but may still possibly be exacerbated by other wear points.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Kiwifrog]

If you do need a rack I would contact Anthony Seach (TR4TONY) as he usually knows where to track down hard to find TR4 parts

 

Cheers

 

Alan

[MikeF]

Hi Mike,

 

Shaker plate ? What it says on the tin !

 

The new-generation MoT ramps have on the front end of each ramp a movable plate, wheron the front wheels sit.

 

Press the button and these plates leap into action, rocking and rolling like Chubby Checker trying to avoid getting rogered by Jerry Lee. This gives the steering and suspension an instant workout, and you can get a much better idea of what is going on whilst standing under the car. And of course, if required the lift beam can raise the car on its suspension too. All in all, a handy diagnostic tool.

 

Tyres are presumably Fulda - and the size ?

 

The steering wheel free movement, before corresponding road wheel movement, may well be rack, agreed, but may still possibly be exacerbated by other wear points.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

 

CAR is with my bloke I am in Germany for a couple of days. Bit of brain fade on size of the tyres, they are the next size up from "as fitted" , the optimum size for standard wheels.

 

Anyway the bloke says, good work on putting it all back together - he's a bit of a smoothie - but you still have flop where there shouldn't be any and the rack is past it, but usable for now, someone with direct familairity would know better.

Surpised by this as the new TR6 coupling is floppy on the pinion splines and on the column. So could be wear, although there was none visible. I will take the column out and reverse it and see if there is still flop. The alternatre is that the coupling is oversize.

Overall I am OK to drive this for a limited period he says but that column slack could quickly turn to serious wear and then you could be in trouble.

So I am definitey in the market for a new rack and an exerienced look/wiggle if anyone is on for that at Malvern this w/e that ould be much appreicated?

 

Mike