neil f p Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 hi everyone newbie here, will admit here and now i'm a novice with mechanics but saying that i feel brave, my problem is a missfire and lumpy running, i've read some posts on the forum about o rings on the injectors failing. i recently took off the air intake tube and ran the car, on the 2nd cylinder [fan end, would that be 2 or 5?]was missing occasionly giving out a small flame. i turned her off and took out the injector, wich rattled when shook and dribbled a little, my quetion to you all is how hard is it to change the o rings inside the injector and do they need to be pressure tested at all? does this make sense? any ideas will be a great regards neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Collins Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 If it rattles then the O ring is almost certainly worn. Is it the type with a wire circlip at the nozzle end? Carefully pry off the circlip, don't let it fly away, the internal parts should come out of the feed pipe end quite easily. Change the o ring, reassemble and see how well it sprays. If it's a crimped type, I don't think they have O rings. It's not easy to dismantle, I remember Malcolm Jones saying they could be repaired once. Cylinder 1 is at the front. Mike. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
88V8 Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) Welcome to the Forum. With the pump running but the engine not, the injectors should not driibble. A light smear of vaseline on the outer O rings helps the injectors slide into the throttle bodies. The seal into the bodies must be airtight otherwise the mixture will be weak. Do not disturb the pressure settings while you have the injectors apart. A test rig is necessary to set up the blow-off pressure. Which O rings and where from - posted by TIMS in November: 'The late - to this Forum - Richard Crawley, led me to this site for these. http://www.altecweb....ubcategory8110a They are Viton. O-Ring Viton, Imperial (Product Code ORV-BS008) Inside injector O Ring, Viton, Imperial (Product Code ORV-BS115) Injector to push fit. Ivor Edited January 23, 2011 by 88V8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
neil f p Posted January 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Welcome to the Forum. With the pump running but the engine not, the injectors should not driibble. A light smear of vaseline on the outer O rings helps the injectors slide into the throttle bodies. The seal into the bodies must be airtight otherwise the mixture will be weak. Do not disturb the pressure settings while you have the injectors apart. A test rig is necessary to set up the blow-off pressure. Which O rings and where from - posted by TIMS in November: 'The late - to this Forum - Richard Crawley, led me to this site for these. http://www.altecweb....ubcategory8110a They are Viton. O-Ring Viton, Imperial (Product Code ORV-BS008) Inside injector O Ring, Viton, Imperial (Product Code ORV-BS115) Injector to push fit. Ivor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
neil f p Posted January 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 hi ivor thanks for getting back to me, so its vital to pressure test the injectors again and not just a case of slipping the new bliters on. how would you test this? i assume recon injectors are tested and this might be a simpler, easier route, but wanted to get to know my tr a little more neil, will get used to typong and using this forum soon! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
neil f p Posted January 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 If it rattles then the O ring is almost certainly worn. Is it the type with a wire circlip at the nozzle end? Carefully pry off the circlip, don't let it fly away, the internal parts should come out of the feed pipe end quite easily. Change the o ring, reassemble and see how well it sprays. If it's a crimped type, I don't think they have O rings. It's not easy to dismantle, I remember Malcolm Jones saying they could be repaired once. Cylinder 1 is at the front. Mike. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
neil f p Posted January 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 hi mike, thanks for your response will try exactly what you said but cant till the weekend will let you know how i get on. neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) hi ivor thanks for getting back to me, so its vital to pressure test the injectors again and not just a case of slipping the new bliters on. how would you test this? i assume recon injectors are tested and this might be a simpler, easier route, but wanted to get to know my tr a little more neil, will get used to typong and using this forum soon! Neil, Heres a photo i have taken of the web shows the injector taken apart, you can see the o ring fitted and the circlip http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://lh3.ggpht.com/_JD-WV38kDzc/Sfm4tdnYifI/AAAAAAAADvc/Jii1cvfMSfg/IMG_0428.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.club.triumph.org.uk/cgi-bin/forum10/Blah.pl%3Fm-1241090448/s-all/&usg=__cp4iy-rE8SopFd64j00ipjiKVVA=&h=1200&w=1600&sz=133&hl=en&start=0&sig2=oUb6KzQzbeT2PDi_Iic07w&zoom=1&tbnid=juN1rw6cs6lHeM:&tbnh=144&tbnw=192&ei=Rmw9TbOkOZSxhQfb9LCHCg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtr6%2Binjectors%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-US%26rlz%3D1I7SKPB_en%26biw%3D1659%26bih%3D732%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=219&oei=Rmw9TbOkOZSxhQfb9LCHCg&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=31&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:0&tx=120&ty=104 Just by removing the injector inards you will not be adjusting its blow off pressure, just dont play with the nylon end and the pressure will remain as is, you can fit the o ring, and then see how it goes, if problems persist,then it may be worthwhile checking or getting checkd the pressures. But if you going to do that probably better to get reconned ones from the likes of Prestige Injection, or K Raven Smith (Forum) Good Luck Guy Edited January 24, 2011 by Jersey Royal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
88V8 Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 hi ivor thanks for getting back to me, so its vital to pressure test the injectors again and not just a case of slipping the new bliters on. how would you test this? One can't test the pop-off pressure as such, that needs a test rig. One can however test for correct function. As it says on that thread under the photo Guy posted... First, if you leave the car standing a day, it should start instantly (obviously after the pump has finished its preliminary announcements). If it take a lot of cranking, or a while for all cylinders to come on line, it suggests that the O rings are leaking and allowing the residual pressure/fuel to dissipate from the injection lines. Although this can also happen due to metering unit & seal wear. With the injector out in the open air - don't get them muddled as to which belongs to which cylinder, label the lines - as I already mentioned with the pump running but the engine stopped, the injector should not dribble. With the engine idling, lift the injectors out one at a time and observe the spray. There should be an even cone, like a garden hose with the nozzle turned down. It's probably best not to spray petrol on the exhaust manifold, some use a jamjar as a receptacle. Ivor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
neil f p Posted January 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Neil, Heres a photo i have taken of the web shows the injector taken apart, you can see the o ring fitted and the circlip http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://lh3.ggpht.com/_JD-WV38kDzc/Sfm4tdnYifI/AAAAAAAADvc/Jii1cvfMSfg/IMG_0428.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.club.triumph.org.uk/cgi-bin/forum10/Blah.pl%3Fm-1241090448/s-all/&usg=__cp4iy-rE8SopFd64j00ipjiKVVA=&h=1200&w=1600&sz=133&hl=en&start=0&sig2=oUb6KzQzbeT2PDi_Iic07w&zoom=1&tbnid=juN1rw6cs6lHeM:&tbnh=144&tbnw=192&ei=Rmw9TbOkOZSxhQfb9LCHCg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtr6%2Binjectors%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-US%26rlz%3D1I7SKPB_en%26biw%3D1659%26bih%3D732%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=219&oei=Rmw9TbOkOZSxhQfb9LCHCg&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=31&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:0&tx=120&ty=104 Just by removing the injector inards you will not be adjusting its blow off pressure, just dont play with the nylon end and the pressure will remain as is, you can fit the o ring, and then see how it goes, if problems persist,then it may be worthwhile checking or getting checkd the pressures. But if you going to do that probably better to get reconned ones from the likes of Prestige Injection, or K Raven Smith (Forum) Good Luck Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
neil f p Posted January 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 hi guy, thanks for info, spoke to chris wittor today and have gone for some recon ones on the basis that they will be set correctly and when the o rings need doing again, armed with all your good folks info, i will then have a go myself. got any tips on getting the nylon part out of the chamber injector slid out but left the bush in. regards neil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 hi guy, thanks for info, spoke to chris wittor today and have gone for some recon ones on the basis that they will be set correctly and when the o rings need doing again, armed with all your good folks info, i will then have a go myself. got any tips on getting the nylon part out of the chamber injector slid out but left the bush in. regards neil. I think you have done the right thing. I have had a nylon bush left in once, i used a pair of rounded long nosed pliers and inserted them into the centre of the bush and opened the jaws and pulled, with a twist. Whilst your at it get Chris to send you a set of new o rings for those bushes and then you are sorted. Cheers Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
neil f p Posted January 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 I think you have done the right thing. I have had a nylon bush left in once, i used a pair of rounded long nosed pliers and inserted them into the centre of the bush and opened the jaws and pulled, with a twist. Whilst your at it get Chris to send you a set of new o rings for those bushes and then you are sorted. Cheers Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
neil f p Posted January 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 hi guy, will try pliers as you suggest, are you up on the fuel pump side of things?mine is behind the n/s rear wheel and horizontal i have just spotted its weeping {if i was good with computers i get a photo of it for you to view} are there seal kits for most pumps or is it renewal time cheers neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) hi guy, will try pliers as you suggest, are you up on the fuel pump side of things?mine is behind the n/s rear wheel and horizontal i have just spotted its weeping {if i was good with computers i get a photo of it for you to view} are there seal kits for most pumps or is it renewal time cheers neil Hi Neil, So it does not look similar to this original Lucas Petrol Pump http://www.lucasinjection.com/bda11.jpg This is an older Bosch Pump http://www.lucasinjection.com/Bosch%20996%20starter%20pump1.JPG This is a modern Bosch set up below the tank, http://www.prestigeinjection.net/pumps.htm Which does yours resemble Seal kits are available for the Original Lucas one , but the bosch ones if they leak its the connections. Cheers Guy Thinking about this Neil, it would be more benefitial it we knew you approx location, then am sure s TRR member local to you would cast there beady eye over your injection system, and also Pressure Relef Valve Edited January 24, 2011 by Jersey Royal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
neil f p Posted January 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) hello guy, my fuel pump looks like the older bosch type and does seem to be weeping bfrom the connections, no repair on this then? i live in weston super mare nr bristol, any advice is welcome, will take photo to chris witor when i collect my injectors. are the old type still available? or an equivilant, as completely renewing fuel pump and prv like one on prestige site, just is'nt in the budget, besides wich my nuts are just fine where they are! cheers neil Edited January 25, 2011 by neil f p Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) hello guy, my fuel pump looks like the older bosch type and does seem to be weeping bfrom the connections, no repair on this then? i live in weston super mare nr bristol, any advice is welcome, will take photo to chris witor when i collect my injectors. are the old type still available? or an equivilant, as completely renewing fuel pump and prv like one on prestige site, just is'nt in the budget, besides wich my nuts are just fine where they are! cheers neil Neil. Its difficult to judge your system/pump without seeing it or hearing it, i suggest you get hold of your local Group leader who will be able to offer asistance in that way. Its too easy sometimes to spend money when it may not be required. If its weeping at the connections, can you tighten them up, depends on the fittings, how old is the rubber pipeing as it will age harden , older tubing isnt great with modern fuels. Do you have a pungent smelly cabin? If you go the route of a new Bosch system replace all the pipework from tank to pump and on to Pressure valve, most units come with this pipework. Clean the filter in PRV. Also consider that its possible that your existing Bosch pump may have been wired using the original lucas pump wiring (green white wire ?). Bosh pumps consume and need more amps(9) than the original Lucas(3.5A) so you you need a separate feed for the pump,, use a relay triggered by original cable and fed with new 27 amp wire. There will be threads on the forum about this with wiring diagrams. All in my Humble Opinion. Good Luck and Keep us Posted Guy Edited January 25, 2011 by Jersey Royal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
neil f p Posted January 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Neil. Its difficult to judge your system/pump without seeing it or hearing it, i suggest you get hold of your local Group leader who will be able to offer asistance in that way. Its too easy sometimes to spend money when it may not be required. If its weeping at the connections, can you tighten them up, depends on the fittings, how old is the rubber pipeing as it will age harden , older tubing isnt great with modern fuels. Do you have a pungent smelly cabin? If you go the route of a new Bosch system replace all the pipework from tank to pump and on to Pressure valve, most units come with this pipework. Clean the filter in PRV. Also consider that its possible that your existing Bosch pump may have been wired using the original lucas pump wiring (green white wire ?). Bosh pumps consume and need more amps(9) than the original Lucas(3.5A) so you you need a separate feed for the pump,, use a relay triggered by original cable and fed with new 27 amp wire. There will be threads on the forum about this with wiring diagrams. All in my Humble Opinion. Good Luck and Keep us Posted Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
neil f p Posted January 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 guy, thanks for info, no smell in cabin, will look into all you suggest, cheers neil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
neil f p Posted January 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) hi all, managed to get the recon injectors in today [much sooner than expected thanks to chris witor's speediness] checked the plugs too wich looked as though she was running rich, anyway got her going and let her settle and checked for the cough and backfire, touch wood i think its gone [famous last words] though the throb on injector pipe 1 seems to be weaker than i remember and definitetly not as strong as the others. any ideas as to why? also considering puttig a relay in to feed the fuel pump as i might need new one where's best place to site it boot or engine bay the relay that is. cheers neil Edited January 25, 2011 by neil f p Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) hi all, managed to get the recon injectors in today [much sooner than expected thanks to chris witor's speediness] checked the plugs too wich looked as though she was running rich, anyway got her going and let her settle and checked for the cough and backfire, touch wood i think its gone [famous last words] though the throb on injector pipe 1 seems to be weaker than i remember and definitetly not as strong as the others. any ideas as to why? also considering puttig a relay in to feed the fuel pump as i might need new one where's best place to site it boot or engine bay the relay that is. cheers neil Neil, The pressure in the fuel lines will be the same. The pluse you feel is a reflection from the injector. The weak pulse could simply be that it isnt 100 per cent bled. What you will need to do is take it out for a blast and see how the injectors perform under load ie load pedal. As for Relay , best place i think is on firewall next to the fuel cut out device, will post a wiring diagram latter if no one else does Wiring Diagram see Post 7 http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=21480 Cheers Guy Edited January 25, 2011 by Jersey Royal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
neil f p Posted January 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 hi guy, thanks for the link thing but i can't open it, excuse my ignorance, is there a kit for the wiring? like the headlamp upgrade ones regards neil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 hi guy, thanks for the link thing but i can't open it, excuse my ignorance, is there a kit for the wiring? like the headlamp upgrade ones regards neil. Neil I believe Revington Tr sell a kit for this http://www.revingtontr.com/shop/product_display.asp?mscssid=5VP8UMBELLN99G6RMTQTTBUJCQ605E4F&ProductID=RTR4017K Not far from you Cheers Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
neil f p Posted January 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 guy, you have been a brilliant help, as so the others who have posted replies when i get the fuel pump sorted will let you thanks again neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Atwell Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Hello everyone I want to take my 1974 model TR6 (CR) to someone who is well versed in servicing the petrol injection system. Ideally I would like to have the lead free kit fitted to the metering unit as I cannot find anywhere in the comprehensive list of invoices from previous owners that this has been done and I would like all six injectors removed and serviced or exchanged for reconditioned ones. The car has the Bosch fuel pump. I live in north Essex (near Colchester) so ideally someone in this area. All help will be appreciated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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