TR6 Vent Grille - Metal/Chrome alternatives to pla

[Richard Crawley]

but you do like things 'right' and 'as per the book'

You are right, I am bit of a perfectionist; but if it’s worth doing you may as well do it properly. It’s usually not much more effort to do a good job as to make a complete pig’s ear of it - in fact sometimes it's less effort!

 

But if I consider something ‘naff design’ (even it is original), I won’t hesitate to change/upgrade it, as looking at my car would confirm.

[foster461]

ok, home from my biz trip and back to more interesting projects.. One interesting feature of the LHD cars at least is that the bonnet release cable starts on the drivers side and crosses the bulkhead at approximately the same height that the spring mounting brackets would be. I'm pretty sure I can finagle things so that the clamps that hold the cable against the bulkhead could share the same bolts that would fix the spring brackets inside the plenum so it will not look funny having some bolts or rivets when looking from under the bonnet.

 

I have all the parts now so I just need to prime and paint the vent lid and fabricate some spring brackets and I will be in business.

 

Stan

[Richard Crawley]

Stan

Had a quick look under the bonnet & on my car the 2 pipe/cable bracket screws are approx. 1 3/8" further in (2 3/4" closer together) & about 3/8" lower than the bottom edge of the bracket so you will need to make the spring brackets around 5/8” longer (higher) than shown on the drg. I sent you to pick up on these. Being closer together should not matter too much but it may cause the ends of the spring to flex a bit more.

[foster461]

In the end I left the bonnet release cable where it was an I used pop rivets through the bulkhead to secure the brackets for the spring that I made from some sheet metal. I found that the spring can be fitted and can operate without removing the two strips that were added to the later cars to provide attachment points for the grille so this conversion can be reversed.

 

So this all fits quite well except for the rubber seal that was supplied with the vent lid..

 

If I install the lid with no seal, the rear of the lid is pretty much level with the plenum and the front edge of the lid is too low. So I know the lid will open and close and thanks to Richard's measurements I have the spring in the right place which seems to be fairly critical for correct operation (especially clamping the lid closed..).

 

If I install with the rubber seal the lid will not close. The seal is too tall and too wide at the rear and it is both fouling on the spring attachment arms on the lid as well as preventing the lid from closing.

 

I wonder is there is something else that I am missing although I dont want to raise the rear of the lid because that will make it higher than the plenum.

 

Does the lid sit level with the plenum or is it raised slightly and am I correct that the rear flap of the rubber seal gets sandwiched in between the plenum and the hinge of the lid ?

 

Stan

[Richard Crawley]

Hi Stan

The lid is supposed to sit level with the plenum & the gasket flap is sandwiched as you say. I had the same problem initially; the gasket has an inner & outer lip & on comparing with the original, I found that the whole gasket was much thicker than the original. In addition, the gasket seal lips were also much thicker than the original & so would not compress as they were supposed to. I trimmed the outer lip so it was much lower than the inner lip & this allowed the spring pressure to compress the inner lip seal & the flap to sit level with the plenum. The replacement lid I bought was also supplied as a flat lid & I had to bend it very slightly (be careful) to match the slight curvature of the plenum. This also helped the gasket to seal better & the lid to sit flush with the plenum.

[foster461]

Richard, the cross section of the seal is like an H with the lower end of the H fitting on the lip of the plenum vent opening and the upper part of the H supposedly sealing with the rim of the vent lid.

 

I agree that the current seals are just plain old too bulky to fit.

 

When you say you trimmed the outer edge of the seal, am I correct that you trimmed the upper right hand part of the H to leave you with a cross section that looks more like a lower case "h" , ie removing some of the material to reduce the bulk and resistance to the lid closing but retaining the inner wall of the seal to provide a contact surface with the lid ?.

 

Stan

[Richard Crawley]

Stan

Yes, you’ve got it; I may even have trimmed a bit off the top of the inner seal (almost to ‘n’) but I can’t remember. Whatever way I looked at it, there was no way the seal, as supplied, was going to do the job as intended so improvisation was the key. I would add that after taking a Stanley knife to the seal, my lid now fits like a golf glove!

 

Reproduction market quality is, I fear, to blame & I reakon some entrepreneurial Korean/Taiwanese/Chinese guy made them to a fax drawing in his lock up but it’s better than I could make & certainly better than nothing. If you ever have cause to replace the screen frame lower seal, expect even more problems!

[foster461]

I did another trial fit tonight and sure enough with a little trimming of the upper lips of the seal it actually works the way it should. I had to strip and paint the lid 4 times before I was happy with it. I couldnt find acrylic lacquer paint so since this was a discrete component I used base/clear and I think once the paint has fully hardened and I can finish it off with some 2000 grit and polish/buff it should blend in pretty well with the existing paint (which is Porche Guards Red, circa 1990 btw).

 

Thanks also for the tip about bending the lid to match the curve in the plenum. I had not noticed it until I got the lid to fit with the seal and then it was obvious that the dead flat lid was not matching the plenum.

 

Stan

[Richard Crawley]

Hi Stan

Been in sunny Spain for a week visiting relatives who live in a very nice villa, half way up a mountain, overlooking the sea (lucky ba**ards) so have only just picked up your post.

 

Glad it’s all worked out OK but having tried acrylic lacquer a couple of times I, personally, don’t like as I think it’s far too ‘soft’; can you not get cellulose? Even a ½ litre spray can would be enough for your requirements.

[foster461]

I have to confess that this whole paint thing confuses me no end.

 

Modern paints in the US seem to be either base/clear or two part enamel (like epoxy glue).

 

Once I get to the older paints I don’t know if I am dealing with an American/English terminology problem or if there are different paints in play. For example what is the difference between cellulose and acrylic lacquer ?. They are both one part paints, mixed with lacquer thinner to spray and require no clear coat. The acrylic lacquer I used 15 years ago still looks great other than a few paint chips. I do find that the lacquer paint chips easier than a clear coated modern car.

 

I did find the remains of my original acrylic lacquer paint and it seems to have resurrected well with some thinner so I'm hoping to spray the vent lid again and get all the bits to match.  

 

Stan

[Guest GeoffWalker]

Hello Crawf!

 

I'm working on this area on mine at the moment.

I bought a new flap that includes the hinge for 16.50 which I thought was OK value since it gets rid of the unsightly mess which was there in the first place.

 

The Angular fixed flap you mentioned, has two functions:

1. To stop debris and water dropping onto the heater Fan and Motor

 

2. It holds the captive nuts which are used to screw the Hinged flap to.

 

 

This piece of steel sitting at a 45 degree angle downwards is ussually rotten.I have cut mine out due to this reason. This has also removed the captive nuts with the sheered Hinge bolts.

 

I'm now left with 3 clean holes which the Vent flap hinge sit on on the scuttle.

I'll probably make the Fan guard up in aluminium and Mig in some captive Nuts for the Vent Flap hinge.

 

Hope this is of some help.

 

Sorry in work at the moment so can't take a photo.

Wouldn't be a pretty one anyway! :laugh:

[Richard Crawley]

For example what is the difference between cellulose and acrylic lacquer ?. They are both one part paints, mixed with lacquer thinner to spray and require no clear coat.

Stan

Found this definition:

 

Types of paint

Lacquers consist of a synthetic resin (such as an acrylic resin or cellulose acetate) dissolved in a volatile organic solvent, which evaporates rapidly to give a very quick-drying paint. A typical oil-based paint has a vehicle of a natural drying oil (such as linseed oil), containing a prime pigment of iron, lead, titanium, or zinc oxide, to which coloured pigments may be added. The finish – gloss, semimatt, or matt – depends on the amount of inert pigment (such as clay or silicates). Oil-based paints can be thinned with, and brushes cleaned in, a solvent such as turpentine or white spirit (a petroleum product). Emulsion paints, sometimes called latex paints, consist of pigments dispersed in a water-based emulsion of a polymer (such as polyvinyl chloride [PVC] or acrylic resin). They can be thinned with water, which can also be used to wash the paint out of brushes and rollers. Enamels have little pigment, and they dry to an extremely hard, high-gloss film. Primers for the first coat on wood or metal, on the other hand, have a high pigment content (as do undercoat paints). Aluminium or bronze powder may be used for priming or finishing objects made of metal. As far as I can get a definition; Acrylic base paints use a plastic, polymer binder & are water based (but not water soluble once cured). Cellulose base paints

 

So the difference is the formulation of the resin that the colour pigment is mixed with. As far as I can establish ‘Lacquer’ is just another term for ‘paint’ & mainly seems to be used in ‘American’ English (i.e. fender/bumper, hood/bonnet?).

 

As I said previously, I tried using acrlic based paint many years ago (admitedlyonly in aerosol form) but found them to give a rather ‘soft’ finish that marked & scratched very easily so I went back to cellulose.

[foster461]

Thanks for digging up the definitions Richard and BTW a Fender is a Wing in English. We call bumpers bumpers just as you do even though it would be logical to call them fenders..

 

Hood/Bonnet

Fender/Wing

Rocker panel/Sill

Trunk/Boot

 

And dont get me started on tool terminology..

 

One ray of hope.. A new rotary was recently completed in Nashua, NH. As you approach it there is a sign that says:

 

ROUNDABOUT AHEAD

 

Now that we have taught them how to name one, we just need to work on teaching them how to use one..

 

Stan

[jonlar]

We call bumpers bumpers just as you do

 

Hood/Bonnet

Fender/Wing

Rocker panel/Sill

Trunk/Boot

 

And dont get me started on tool terminology..

Thanks for that Stan, I also thought a fender was a bumper.   But what do you call those great black lumps, that got stuck on the bumpers.............?

 

Please do give us some pointers on tools............................

[foster461]

But what do you call those great black lumps, that got stuck on the bumpers

 

Most people call them bumperettes. I call them an abomination, part of the royal mess they made of the imported TR6 starting in 1973 (not counting the lack of fuel injection) and that got worse until its demise in 1976. Many people including me remove them. I got sick of banging my knee every time I walked around the damn car and they are just plain ugly.

 

Now on to tools. We are ok with hammers, chisels, saws and screwdrivers for the most part. It seems to be with spanners that things went horribly wrong.

 

In English we have spanners, ring spanners and box spanners, adjustable spanners and maybe some specialised undoing devices like moles and stilsons. Everybody ok with those terms ?.

 

In American we have wrenches. The classic spanner is an open ended wrench, the ring spanner is a box wrench (no, really), the adjustable spanner is a crescent wrench although I hear a lot of people calling it an adjustable wrench too. A Stilson is a Stilson and sometimes a pipe wrench. The one thing I have not yet found a translation for is a box spanner (tube, flats at one end to fit around the nut/bolt, hole in tube for a tommy bar etc). I dont recall ever seeing one and my wife who is a native looks blank when I mention it. We may need some help identifying one of these:

 

http://www.diydata.com/tool/spanner/box.gif

 

Stan

[jonlar]

I've only known them as box spanners, although sometimes called plug spanners.

[jimmac]

Box or tube spanner works for me.  Tube spanner seemed to be a common term when I was living in South Africa.  Box spanner is, I think, a British name.

 

Jim