John McCormack
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Posts posted by John McCormack
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Cutting a hole there is a normal way of repairing the bridge. Put the cut out piece back in and all is good.
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17 hours ago, Lebro said:
Are you sure it was not a hydraulic issue ?
Bob
Well it could be, Bob.
After reassembly the clutch still won't disengage. I bled the clutch again, the clutch operation is the same as before I bled it this time and the movement in the slave cylinder seems to be normal compared to my other TR2. The clutch operating shaft, fork etc are all new and working normally.
The output shaft rotates normally in neutral. The car drives normally in 2nd gear. I don't think it is a gearbox issue but then .....
I replaced the clutch on my other car 18 months ago and everything went smoothly. But then I built that car so I knew that everything was as it should be. I bought this car in bits and with most major parts including the clutch bought by the previous owner.
I am at a loss. Obviously something isn't how it should be but at the moment it is beyond me.
Removing the box wasn't a total waste of time as it allowed me to check the back of the engine for oil leaks after having run the engine a few times. But it was a few hours I didn't need to spend. If my other TR2 hadn't had a clutch plate frozen to the flywheel once before I wouldn't have gone looking for it.
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On 3/14/2019 at 8:11 PM, stuart said:
Did you check the left hand side bearing in the rack as I mentioned on page 1 of this topic?
Stuart.
Yep, no appreciable play. It had new poly bushes installed in the rack and the bearing just before I bought it and it was all ok then.
I just got back from a 50km drive over the Sydney Harbour Bridge to our previous house north of Sydney and back over the Gladesville Bridge (a fun drive!). I didn't get near full lock at parking speeds but did take a few tightish right hand corners at speed. There were no clunks and the JB Weld hasn't moved or cracked.
I am confident there is no movement in the pillar nor is there a major problem with the steering or suspension. I do think the steering lock on right hand turns needs adjusting, it turns so tight at full lock the front tyres move sideways on the pavement. It doesn't do this on left hand turns. The clunk might be from a little play on that LHS bearing but as the play is within tolerance I suspect the steering lock is the issue.
I'll get these two cracks welded up soon but the car is OK, and going superbly.
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Pulled it apart and the clutch plate fell off as I expected. I can't see any sign of where it was stuck but being brand new there are no wear marks that might give it away.
The thrust bearing and fork are secure and working normally.
I will button the clutch and gearbox together and check clutch operation before I finish the job.
Bloody annoying, I hate it when you can't positively identify the fault.
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21 hours ago, YOW500 said:
On the same theme, I think?.
On doing a complete body off restoration, the engine and gearbox, having been completed first were put to one side, the clutch operation was tested, and all was well. After well over two years, and having installed the engine/gearbox, and fitted the body, the clutch was found to be frozen solid. Even with a short length of tube, and measured force, it would not move on the lever. Having now removed the gearbox, inspection revealed that I could see a clear pattern of marks on the flywheel where the plate was stuck.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, lack of knowledge is not. I hope my experience will save someone else a days work with a good friend.
Russell
Same.I will take the box out this weekend or early next week and free the clutch. New pressure plate, clutch plate and machined flywheel probably provides the ideal environment for a bonding of the plate to the flywheel.
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56 minutes ago, Motorsport Mickey said:
"Reassemble"
And then take appropriate preventative action so that in another 6 months or whenever the return to road is envisaged the same thing hasn't happened again.
Mick Richards
Use it regularly!
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I tried most of these suggestions without success. Warmed it up to hot, left it sitting for 30 minutes. Warmed it up again.
Pushed the car into the rear lane, tried starting it in 2nd and blipping the throttle while the car was moving forward with the clutch depressed. Did this a few times and each time jammed on the brakes with the clutch depressed. No good.
Put it in 4th, brakes hard on and clutch depressed and tried starting it. No good.
I would not try dropping it off a jack. It would place loads that just aren't appropriate for any car let alone a 1954 TR2 with a Lockheed axle.
Next step is to remove the box. It shouldn't take too long as the tunnel is out, there is no upholstery and only one seat to remove. Unbolt the tail shaft, the gearbox mount and the flange. Pull it out of the way, undo the clutch pressure plate, watch the clutch plate fall off the flywheel. Reassemble.
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Thank you all.
If I have the room I will try Tim Hunt's solution first.
I will then try warming it up and cooling it down a few times with the clutch depressed and then rocking the car back and forward with the clutch depressed.
If no good I'll take her outside, put it in 2nd, start her and see what happens over a couple of hundred metres.
If nothing works after a few attempts the gearbox will come off. At least there is no interior or tunnel in the way.
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On 3/18/2019 at 8:28 PM, tim hunt said:
Hello John,
Sorry to hear of your frustrating problem. After having had this trouble a couple of times during my early ownership of the 4A, when I resorted to a similar rather brutal technique to those suggested, I gave the matter some thought and came up with a much more mechanically sympathetic solution. Please try this trick first, it worked like a dream the last two times I had a stuck clutch.
Remove spark plugs to eliminate engine compression. Engage handbrake firmly or have an assistant lock the wheels with the foot brake and chock front and rear wheels securely. Select a gear and fully depress the clutch by wedging a piece of wood of the right length between the pedal and the seat runner. Fit a socket (1/2Whitworth 9/16BS on my car) on the crankshaft bolt. Next simply fit a suitable T-bar on the socket and exert a clockwise turning force. Both times I was able easily to exert sufficient force with just a 12” T-bar to free the flywheel from the clutch driven plate. In more stubborn cases a longer T-bar could be used or a snug fitting length of pipe over a short T-bar for extra torque.
I am pleased to say that these days the car is used far too frequently for the clutch ever to stick!
Kind regards to you and Sue,
Tim
Thanks Tim. I like this idea as a first step, if it works on a TR2. Far less savage!
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A lovely car but:
The front left guard is the wrong shape in front of the wheel. It can be seen in the 1st and 2nd photos.
It looks like it has had a full body off resto at some stage.
The hinges are chromed, early TR2 hinges were originally body colour and I believe they should be so on this car.
Sliding window sidescreens are TR3A.
Apart from power brakes, alloy rocker cover, electrics (non original regulator), hose clamps and windscreen washer bottle the engine bay is superbly original.
A beautiful car, cheap at the current price.
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A big milestone today, the long door TR2 engine startup in the body with everything connected. The good news was it started in a couple of seconds and ran well.
The bad news is the clutch plate is stuck to the flywheel. I assembled it about 12 months ago and as it couldn't be moved until now the plate has stuck.
I tried rocking the car backwards and forwards in gear without success. Once I have a seat back from the upholsterer I will try starting it in first gear in the lane behind my garage but as I live in the inner Sydney suburbs I am not really able to drive it anywhere.
Any ideas, short of pulling the box.
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7 hours ago, Waldi said:
My car “jumps” when in full steer with low speed. I contribute that to my tires, they are old and hard, and steering geometry is not at best at this position.
It did it before I dismantled the car, and still does it after the major rebuild. I can feel this in my steering wheel.
Hope (expect) this will get better once the new tyres are installed.
is yours similar?
Waldi
This could be an issue. The steering geometry is terrible at full right lock with tyre scrubbing occurring. But I wouldn't expect that to cause the clunk I get.
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6 hours ago, Bill944T said:
This may be completely irrelevant but I had similar on a Transit van and it ended up by being a simple matter that the spring had broken at the very top but still contained in the "cup holder" so difficult to reveal unless completely dismantled....... If I haven't explained very well, it was just a fracture at the last 4" of spring length.
Regards
Bill
Thanks Bill. I had the springs out to install the shocks about a year ago. (the spacer was in the bottom instead of the top so the shocks wouldn't fit) They were ok then although this noise started after that.
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15 hours ago, stuart said:
Did you check the left hand side bearing in the rack as I mentioned on page 1 of this topic?
Stuart.
Yes, I checked it and couldn't detect any play. The bushes were replaced just before I bought the car, I insisted the previous owner get it done, and they were ok then as well.
I will check for play again. Is there anything else I should look for?
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My CP car has a CR block. It has all the CP bits such as the head, metering unit, cam, manifolds.
What if any differences are there between the two blocks. Is the CR a better block?
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Ok brains trust, I have driven the car a few times and have done some tight manoeuvring. The clunk has occurred a few times, again with full or near full right lock at walking/parking pace.
The thought was the cracks in the pillar were allowing movement and causing the noise. I covered the cracks with JBWeld which isn't flexible so would crack or break up with any movement.
The JBWeld has not moved nor cracked. The pillar is not moving.
I cannot detect any play in the top ball joint and only a little bit in the steering. The MOT man says it is all in good condition.
Has anybody else experienced a steering/suspension clunk when turning hard at walking pace? If known, what was the cause?
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My seal was weeping so it was replaced when the diff was out for mount repairs. The new seal collapsed with 100kms, oil everywhere. A new one went in and it also weeps.
We used a speedisleeve, I think the quality of the seals is a problem.
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On 9/28/2018 at 7:12 AM, john.r.davies said:
I would go to to a different electrician. There is no 'clutch' in a starter and no solenoid in the OE one either.
The OE has a Bendix drive, that uses inertia and a scroll to push the pinion onto the starter ring as the starter starts to turn. This scroll, and the Bendix itself, can get dirty with clutch dust etc. preventing it working properly. If you can get the starter off, clean the Bendix with brake cleaner, and lubricate it with GRAPHITE powder, never grease, because that will attract more dirt.
Also worth checking that the starter cables are in good condition, and the external solenoid switch, so that the maximum current cant hrow the Pinion a the Flywheel well!
JOhn
Hi John. There is a clutch in the starter. It allows the pinion to disengage when the engine fires. It may also operate when starting, I can't make it out. See Mike C's attachment below.
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12 hours ago, Mick Forey said:
My TR6 has made the same horrible noise on 1 in 10 to 20 starts since I bought it in 1980. I was advised to change the starter ring when I overhauled the engine sometime in the early '80s - made no difference, still did it and still does it to this day. The starter is original and has never been apart: 130, 000 miles and 47 years, not bad Mr Lucas but why does it do it?
It is an embarrassing noise as it really only does it when there are people standing around the car admiring it before you set off. There is a law governing that coincidence.
Mick
Yep, always when people are watching the car.
I dismantled the spare starter and there is a clutch in it, to allow the pinion to disengage when the engine fires. The clutch is described in Mike C's attachment above.
Whether the clutch also operates when starting I can't make out.
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11 hours ago, ChrisR-4A said:
HiJohn, were the shocks supplied by a TR dealer as specified for TR fitment? I mention this although it mainly happens when fitted to rear of car but if stroke of shock is too short it can bottom out before the spring has compressed as designed to giving a premature harsh bump stop.
Chris
Thanks Chris. They are Spax adjustables for a TR6 from The Roadster Factory.
A thorough inspection of the right hand side and it had one small hairline crack now repaired. The LH side had/has a few cracks.
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11 hours ago, SeanF said:
Hi Bob,
It had sat on the shelf as removed from the car for over 4 years while the rebuild was going on, and on initial test it turned really slowly. Having taken it apart and cleaned / lubricated the relevant parts as per the picture above, it worked perfectly in a bench test and had a very good voltage drop etc. On the car it works well and starts the car perfectly, except that every so often instead of engaging and starting the engine it whirrs with a sort of high grinding noise and doesn't turn the engine over. Does this a couple of times when the key is turned, then reverts to working perfectly again.
Cheers,
Sean
Mine is the same. The more I use the car the less it does it.
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11 hours ago, RogerH said:
Hi John,
interesting use of JBWeld.
Having played with cracks for a few years now I think I would be best to to remove the filler, thoroughly clean the area and then paint it white.
The crack will show up better against the white. the crack face chaff then you will see a 'rust' deposit on the white paint high lighting the crack more so.
If you have an airfield near you, pop along to the engineers and scrounge an aerosol of Red Dye Penetrant. Cheap and simple.
Roger
Thanks Roger. That process would require dismantling when it would be better to do the repair properly including reinforcing the areas of cracking.
All the JBWeld will do is identify where the movement is when it clunks again. It will be ground out for the repair.
I took it for a very short drive yesterday after the Weld had set including a couple of roundabouts and uneven roads. There wasn't any movement in the cracks. It appears to only occur when there is a lot of strain on the pillar, full lock at walking speeds and slower.
My concern is why this cracking is happening and it appears from other responses that it is a weak point in the chassis, like the diff mounts.
I have owned the car for 2.5 years and this seems to have appeared in the last 6 or so months. I removed the springs when I installed new shocks (the spacer was fitted at the bottom not the top so the shocks wouldn't fit), there have been a couple of MOTs by two different garages and a thorough wheel alignment. Nothing untoward was seen.
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On 9/28/2018 at 7:12 AM, john.r.davies said:
I would go to to a different electrician. There is no 'clutch' in a starter and no solenoid in the OE one either.
The OE has a Bendix drive, that uses inertia and a scroll to push the pinion onto the starter ring as the starter starts to turn. This scroll, and the Bendix itself, can get dirty with clutch dust etc. preventing it working properly. If you can get the starter off, clean the Bendix with brake cleaner, and lubricate it with GRAPHITE powder, never grease, because that will attract more dirt.
Also worth checking that the starter cables are in good condition, and the external solenoid switch, so that the maximum current cant hrow the Pinion a the Flywheel well!
JOhn
I had the car at our Triumph workshop last week for a different reason. He went to start the car and the starter motor span and didn't engage. His first words were "starter clutch slipping". Now I haven't yet pulled a TR6 starter apart but he is the 2nd person who knows TR6s inside out who has said the same thing.
I have a spare one, I will dismantle and see what is inside.
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2 hours ago, Waldi said:
Hi John,
just a minor comment: the bolt on the spring pan (2nd pic) is too short, it should protrude through the nut. I would replace the bolt with a slightly longer one (and check the others too).
Good luck with the cracks.
Waldi
Thank you. Very good pickup.
Clutch plate stuck to flywheel
in TR2/3/3A/3B Forum
Posted
Yes David it was one of those. I spoke to a mate with a TR2 who had some clutch issues after a 40 year restoration. He had to put the pushrod in the top hole of the lever to get it working. I moved the pushrod to the top hole and adjusted it out a lot and, lo and behold, the clutch works. It should work in the centre hole and with a shorter rod length but it works, I will sort it out later.
I drove the car up and down my back lane a few times and it drives quite well. Steering is good, noting I have aligned it by eye. The brakes pulled up straight and didn't need a lot of pressure either forward or in reverse. The gearbox changed between 1st and 2nd smoothly. This is the first time the car has moved under its own power since December 1966.
The generator isn't charging but that should be easily fixed after I identify the generator or regulator as the culprit.
A few rattles the major one being the soft top bow mounts captive nuts which are loose in their cage, as they should be.
The rear springs are very stiff, I have a feeling they might be the racing springs from the cars previous life so a new set might be in order.
A pretty good day all round. Beer o'çlock here.