[HARD REAR SUSPENSION]

I am hogging this forum but here is another issue I need help on.
The previous owner bought this TR2 in 1966. When he started the restoration about 10  years ago he dismantled, cleaned and reassembled the rear springs with good lubricant between the leaves. They have the same number of leaves as the standard ones on my other TR2, 6 I recall.
I installed them with new bushes.
He had the rear shocks rebuilt professionally and they move quite normally. A bit stiff but nothing out of the ordinary.
Now I am driving the car the rear suspension is very stiff on both sides. It is very bouncy on the bumps down my rear lane.
I removed a shock to check it wasn't too stiff. It moves through full throw with only moderate pressure. I also backed off the rear hanger bushes as I had clamped them up tight.
The car is still pretty light, no upholstery except the drivers seat, no weather gear, windscreen, spare wheel etc.
The car was used primarily as a race car before the previous owner got it. 
Would it be possible the springs are set hard for racing? I would have thought that would be achieved with an extra leaf which it doesn't have.

Is there a simple test I could do to assess this without removing them.

[Fuel gauge/sender problems]

19 hours ago, Charlie D said:

John,

I’ve worked on many electrical and mechanical problems in my life and on several occasions I’ve found things work “On the bench” but not when fitted to what they are supposed to be fitted to.

Usually the answer has been because when bolting the item in place there has been some minor distortion due to the mounting screws causing something to be where it should not be.

Try loosening the sender mounting screws with the ignition on and the sender connected and see at what point (if at all) it all starts to work correctly.

WARNING… It would probably be best to not remove the sender completely with the power on as the slight chance of a spark from somewhere might just cause the petrol in the tank to explode.

Charlie.

Thanks Charlie. Unfortunately that didn't work.

But I removed the sender again and pulled it apart. I cleaned up all the surfaces and removed the bit of insulation I put on the stud under the cover. In doing this I noticed that the gauge stayed on full until the float moved up a bit at which point the gauge went to empty. It then rose normally as you lifted the float.

The tank had 15 litres in it so I thought the float should be high enough to get the gauge to work. I put another 10 litres in and now the gauge reads, but only about 1/8 of a tank with 20-25 litres in it.

It will now read full when it is full but it will read empty with about 15-20 litres still in the tank. Reading empty with 5 litres left would be good.

I tried to bend the arm down but I didn't want to strain it for fear of it snapping, it is 64 years old.

However, the gauge does show a fuel level which is better than yesterday. In the absence of any breakthrough ideas I will leave it and see what happens as the car gets used.

[Fuel gauge/sender problems]

18 minutes ago, Lebro said:

That is wrong - removing cable between gauge & sender should make gauge go to full (assuming you have the correct TR2 style gauge.)

TR2 - TR3A gauges react instantly whereas TR4 on react slowly, they work on different principals, & the later type will read empty if wire removed.

Bob.

You are right. It does got to full, or rather it stays on full.

That must be a clue. As I noted in my first post, the gauge is on full all the time the ignition is on.

But why would it work OK outside the tank?

 

[1972 TR6 not starting after refitting cylinder head]

My manual is TR6 Part No 545277 Issue 1. It says 80lbft.

I also have a CR block in my CP car, with CP head, metering unit etc. I assumed the same torque settings.

[Fuel gauge/sender problems]

9 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Hi John,

                if it all works outside the tank but not inside then look for an intermittent  fault. Check any crimped or soldered joints.

Roger

 

PS - regarding the earth.  Are you earthing to the body or the tank?  Is the tank insulated form the chassis etc etc

Thanks Roger. Yes the tank is isolated from the body so I have run a solid cable from the sender, under one of the attachment screws, to the tank strap mounting bolt below the sender. The earth worked fine with the sender outside the tank and my auto electrician tested the earth declaring it good.

As the only change is to insert the sender into the tank I am at a loss. 

If I remove the cable to the gauge from the sender the gauge goes to zero. If I remove the earth from the tank nothing happens, the gauge stay on full. It has to be the earth (famous last words) but I don't see why or how.

[Fuel gauge/sender problems]

1 hour ago, Lebro said:

The gauge will read full if the wire to the sender is open circuit, or the sender is not earthed, or if the the sender has an open circuit inside (dirty resistance track, or not enough pressure from wiper to track).  The gauge will read empty if the wire to the sender is shorted to earth, or, as in your case the connection to the sender has shorted to earth.

To test gauge, apply volts to the B terminal, earth the case, & earth the T terminal - it should read empty. Then remove earth (& any other connections ) from the T terminal gauge should read full.

Bob.

Thanks Bob. Everything worked perfectly until I put the sender in the tank. Therefore the wire to the sender is OK and it doesn't have an open circuit inside (I also did a visual on the circuit when it was open and it all looked fine). 

As you note it can only be one of the 3 things, wire to the sender broken (it wouldn't have worked outside the tank), an open circuit in the sender (again, it worked outside the tank and the visual inspection didn't see anything) and the earth.

Therefore I assume it is the earth. But I can't understand why the sender isn't earthed as I used the same earth cable to test it out of the tank and it worked OK. Now even when I run a 2nd earth lead to the body it still doesn't work. I have cleaned the connections for the earth till my fingers bleed.

Stuffed if I can figure out why it won't earth.

[Fuel gauge/sender problems]

I have been unable to get my long door TR2 fuel gauge working. 
I am aware that the earth is usually the problem with these things and have put an earth wire in from the sender cover to the tank mounting bolt. The electrician said this earth is OK. Initially it didn't move off empty and the electrician identified the sender as the problem.
I pulled the sender out and dismantled it to find the insulation between the power stud and the top cover was breaking up. I replaced the insulation. With the sender out of the tank I attached the power lead and earthed the cover, with my earthing wire to the mounting bolt, and the sender and gauge worked perfectly.
I refitted the sender to the tank and the gauge reads full all the time. I have tried earthing it through another wire to no avail.
Any ideas please.

[1972 TR6 not starting after refitting cylinder head]

A question. Why torque the head down to 65lbft? The book says 80lbft. Not having it torqued down runs a higher risk of blowing the gasket or worse.

[THE DREADED BABY TENAX WANTED!]

10 hours ago, Tony_C said:

Hello Roger, are you sorted? I know I have some ‘new 35 year old’ baby tenax somewhere but still cannot find them. However, I have found quite a few old and original male pins, most of them are grotty! Most of them tapered thread but few with thread and nut.

Perhaps let me know if you might want them?

Tony 

Hi, I am not up to that stage yet but I anticipate will need a set for my long door TR2. If anybody has any please let me know.

[Steering control head]

On 4/1/2019 at 3:28 AM, Lebro said:

Steering is heavy on the sidescreen cars (very heavy compared to modern !) a very good steering box can have little detectable play, but most are worn to some extent.

1st check is that the adjustment on top of the steering box is correct. Lift both front wheels off the ground, & set the wheels dead ahead, then slacken the lock nut so that you can screw the inner threaded part up, or down. slowly screw it downwards while checking for tightness on the steering wheel, once it starts to bind, back off the screw a small amount untill steering is free again, then lock the screw in that position. then check from lock to lock to make sure there are no tight spots. If there are then slacken off the adjustment till they go.   Having done that, & with the wheels back on the ground see if the slackness had improved. another thing to check are the various ball joints, the fixing of the steering box to the chassis, the rubber isolated connection between box & center tie rod.   The condition of the steering idler should also be checked, but in my experience they are all a bit slack, & in fact this does not make an awful lot of difference.

I have seen complete control heads on ebay from time to time, so that might be worth a look.

Cheers

Bob.

I'd like to expand on what Bob advises here.

It is critical with TR steering boxes to make sure the end float is correct before you do any other adjustments. End float is adjusted with shims under the end plate on the box, where the stator tube protrudes. You need to get it adjusted so there is no discernible end float in the steering column but you can turn the steering column with your fingers on the spline, no steering wheel. If this isn't right all other adjustments won't be right . Unfortunately, I don't know of a way to set this up with the steering box in the car. I can better describe how to do this but it will be lengthy to do it here.

The 2nd requirement is to ensure the steering box is in the straight ahead position when the wheels are in the straight ahead. Unlike rack and pinion it is critical that the steering box is centred before adjusting the peg. Over time the tie rods can be adjusted so the steering box isn't in the straight ahead position when the wheels are. The best way to check this is to align the edge of the steering arm on the bottom of the steering box with the angle described in the manual. I do this by shining a torch down and aligning the edge of the steering arm with the steering column. Hard to describe but easy to do once you have figured it out.

Now you can adjust the steering. If you don't do this first you will adjust the adjusting screw down with the steering arm off centre. When you move the steering through centre the steering can jam solid, I have done this many years ago. 

I have fitted the Revington spring loaded steering box top to both my TR2s. It is a very worthwhile mod as it keeps the peg firmly in the worm when cornering. As the peg moves away from the centre of the worm there is a lot of slack and the spring loaded top removes most of this. This is why you see TR drivers hunting with the steering wheel on sweeping bends. 

The other mod I did to my daily driver is fit the Revington bushes to replace the silentbloc ones. They take out a lot of play.

I have a video of my steering on youtube. I made it to show the rack and pinion only brigade that the original steering works well if properly set up and maintained. The video was shot after about 20,000 miles with no work or adjustments to the steering. It is on a slight sweeping left hand bend.

 

[Sydney HARBOUR BRIDGE IN 54 TR2]

1 hour ago, John Morrison said:

John, you have a PM.

John.

Thanks John. I have replied.

[Sydney HARBOUR BRIDGE IN 54 TR2]

On 3/29/2019 at 7:14 AM, Tony_C said:

Always fun to cross that old bridge / ‘coathanger’ ... last time 2017 we went over the top, great but don’t need to do it again - whole family breathylised early morning - our ‘wild colonial cousins are changing somewhat.. 

 

Stunning though John, your car, boat, town etc..

I haven't done the arch walk, probably a tourist thing.

I have touched a helicopter skid on the top of the arch in my Navy Fleet Air Arm days.

 

[very smokey exhaust]

On 3/30/2019 at 11:18 AM, jah said:

Andy 

If its an injection car check choke lever is not stuck on, the one at the back of the metering unit.

John

It definitely sounds fuel related.

I had exactly this problem with mine. I hadn't had the car long and took ages to discover it. Put your finger down between the block and enrichment lever and push it home hard.

If that doesn't fix it get a bit of fuel out and make sure it isn't a petrol/diesel mix. We had a TR3 half filled with diesel with similar symptoms.

The pull the plugs but that will only indicate the problem. This does not sound ignition related.

[Sydney HARBOUR BRIDGE IN 54 TR2]

1 hour ago, Ian Vincent said:

That engine sounds very smooth John.

Rgds Ian

This car is my daily driver Ian, I have owned it for 43 years.

It gets used as a normal car at home and takes us on a lot of TR Register runs. Victoria (2,000kms) a few times in the last couple of years, Tasmania (5,000kms) in 2017, Adelaide last year (4,000kms. This weekend my wife and I will join a few other sidescreen TRs for a weekend in Bathurst, a few hours west of here. I average 10-15,000 kms a year.

It hasn't stopped me for many years (5-6 years ago when it failed to proceed and was towed home, before that in the early 90s), although it is a TR and has caused some anxious moments.

They are great little cars.

[Sydney HARBOUR BRIDGE IN 54 TR2]

My pleasure Paul. A nice day for my 3 bridges (ANZAC, HArbour and Gladesville) drive. Enjoy the rest of your stay in Oz and thank you for delivering the carbies.

[1st Drive]

38 minutes ago, tim hunt said:

What a major step John. Great to see and thanks for posting.

Best regards from UK.

Tim

Thanks Tim. All settled at home?

I have another UK member, Paul J, visiting my place tomorrow and maybe take a car for a run. He will deliver a pair of 1 1/2"SUs for this car which he and David Ferry have gone to an enormous effort and some risk to get to me. 

It is a pleasure to be able to meet with international TR owners. One big worldwide family.

[1st Drive]

1 hour ago, Lebro said:

Well done, looks & sounds great.

I see you are running with just one brake light. PM me if you would like to upgrade to 3, where indicators double as brake lights all in LED so much brighter.

Bob.

Thanks Bob. This one is being built to be as close as possible to how it left the factory. My other TR2 has 3 brake lights, but I did run it with one for 40 years.

[1st Drive]

19 minutes ago, Paul J said:

Good bit of footage John I will know which garage to look for tomorrow. 

Paul

You will indeed Paul. Looking forward to catching up and maybe going for a drive in the other TRs in the garage.

[Clutch plate stuck to flywheel]

I adjusted it further today and put the fork back in the middle hole. It doesn't quite feel right, i.e. it is different to my other TR2, but it works ok. I posted a couple of videos of its first drive since 1966 elsewhere on this forum.

Thank you all for the comments and advice. They were all helpful as were a few of the mates here in Sydney who gave me advice today. 

This restoration is a team effort.

[1st Drive]

1st drive since December 1966.

 

 

[Clutch plate stuck to flywheel]

4 hours ago, Richardtr3a said:

I had the same adjustment problems with my 3A clutch for many years. In the end it was discovered by my local garage that the push rod was too short. We checked the Moss catalogue and there are different mounting plates and pushrods for the Lockheed  or the Girling. It turns out that I had the Lockheed parts on my Girling slave cylinder. I bought the new correct parts and it works as it should , connected in the correct hole.

Are you sure that you have the right parts.?  It took me years to work it out. Good luck. Richard and B.

Quite possible the part is the culprit. The previous owner bought the car in 1966 and I bought it in bits from him. The slave cylinder bits were in one box but whether they were all the right parts I don't know.

[Clutch plate stuck to flywheel]

1 hour ago, Lebro said:

Did we mention to check the taper pin is not sheared ?

Bob.

You have got me thinking now. I checked the operation of the shaft and thrust race which showed no sign of anything untoward.

But I didn't look closely at the pins themselves. Both the taper pin and roll pin are new, the clutch had not been used and therefore they haven't had an opportunity to break. But a long throw was the symptom of a broken taper pin on my other TR2 (it's clutch was in service for many years and miles before it broke and it didn't then have a roll pin backup).

I will keep this potential problem in mind and if I don't find another cause I will whip the box off again before I complete fitting the upholstery. I'm pretty good at it now, without removing the clutch the box will be off and on in 2-3 hours.

[1972 TR6 not starting after refitting cylinder head]

Remove and clean the plugs. They are often the problem in these situations.

I have been working on a 1937 Morgan 4/4 and it ran for a bit then wouldn't. Spark at the plug/lead, fuel and compression were good, but the plugs weren't.

[Clutch plate stuck to flywheel]

8 minutes ago, stuart said:

I had a similar problem with a 3a that came in part built a few years ago and we discovered in the end the clutch plate was in the wrong way round.

Stuart.

Interesting. The plate we use from Moss will only go in one way, the pressure plate won't mate up to the flywheel if it is in backwards.

[Clutch plate stuck to flywheel]

47 minutes ago, Lebro said:

Did we mention to check the taper pin is not sheared ?

Bob.

Yes Bob. The taper pin is new and solid and backed up with a roll pin cross drilled into the operating shaft.

I did have this problem with my other TR2. The taper pin had snapped but there was enough still catching the shaft to allow the clutch to work. When I did this clutch we backed up the taper pin with the roll pin. I checked it while the box was out and it all looked in order, it hadn't been used so I can't see it would have been an issue.