Mike C
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Posts posted by Mike C
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Yes distributors are an item the modern car owner won't lament.Over 40 years ago I used to test the points and coil by removing the centre lead from the distributor and holding it with insulated pliers about a quarter of an inch from the block.You then got someone to crank the engine over and watched for a fat blue spark.If you got the spark the coil,its HT lead and the points were OK.You then looked at the rotor,distributor cap and its HT leads.I haven't done this on my TR6 when the points were installed and I have no idea if it will work with or damage a Pertronix Ignitor.
Might be worth a try if you reinstall the points.
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Jeremy,I don't know if this will help but I noticed that I've soldered,rather than crimped ,the joints on the LT side of my ignition system.This was probably because I had a problem with dry joints in the past.It may be worth checking the crimping or soldering the LT joints.
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Jeremy,
If you haven't already done so, you should at least carefully check the rotor arm over thoroughly.Over the years I've had several fail due to cracking after I've disturbed the distributor top.Whenever I now take the top off the distributor I test run the engine after replacing it because I've had so many rotor failures.This is especially true if you have had trouble getting the distributor top to seat snugly recently.
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Hi Jeremy,
It looks like you may not have a ballast resistor.The 12.9 V should at least get the ignition to fire. You are sure all the HT wiring is correct,particularly the wire between the distibutor and the coil?All I can suggest is check all the wiring and try again.I don't know enough about the internals of a Pertronix.
Regards,
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Jeremy.Just a thought.Check the voltage into the coil when the engine is turning over-6V is consistant with a supply through a ballast resistor then your voltmeter resistance ,not the 12Vstarting voltage that should be supplied to the coil when the starter solenoid comes in.Note my previous post on ballast resistor wiring will not apply to most cars.Tonight I had a close look the ballast resistor in my car, it is wired into the coil supply the whole time(meaning the coil feeds on 6V)-the coil is a giant finned yellow device that was apparently a popular option in the 1970's for reasons I can't fathom.I just had another look to confirm it and my wiring is unusual but I took the red supply to the Pertronix from the 12V supply into the ballast resistor.I've got a copy of Dan Masters wiring diagrams from, I think,this site a while ago.The ballast resistor wire is pink and white and the 12V feed for starting is yellow and white(not that this means much on 40 year old cars).
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Jeremy,
It was the uncertainity and effort to start with points ignition,particularily if it had been a fair while since a tune up, that convinced me to go to electronic ignition.I'd suggest you pull the plugs out and leave the points system installed.If the plugs are still wet from the previous attempts your fuel system is probably OK. Crank the engine over with the plugs out and see if you get a spark,don't worry about the timing until you know you are getting a spark.The engine should turn heartily with the plugs out.If you are not getting a spark I'd check the coil,either use an ohmmeter to check the primary and secondary resistance or try a substitute coil.Messing around with the Pertronix switched on and without the engine running can burn out the coil.
Once you get a spark proceed back to square one ,and check the timing etc with your preferred ignition system.
In my experience the vast majority of starting problems are due to ingnition faults.
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Nick,
This is a long shot,but I suggest you check the excess fuel cable is not sticking, and when it is off, there is clearance at the cam on the metering unit.Many years ago I became resigned to the fact that, after a long run in the TR6 I would need a shower and a change of clothes to get rid of the petrol smell.To me it's part of the experience.To avoid the fumes some of my mates have rerouted the exhausts to exit in front of the rear wheels.
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Jeremy,
I found the instructions that came with my Pertronix in the shed this morning.If the engine won't start they recommend connecting a temporary jumper wire directly from the red Pertronix wire to the battery positive side.If the engine starts you have a low voltage problem.If the engine starts at this point I'd look at the permanent feed to the Pertronix-make sure its 12V with a multimeter.
Note in the instructions Pertronix also warn to watch out for permanent damage to the Ignitor due to overheating if it's left on with the engine not running.
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Les,I use nothing very exotic.My isolator has been fitted to both the positive and negative leads at the battery posts at different times.You could put one on each if you so desire.It is a rotary switch fitted to the battery post with a dummy battery post on the side.You fit the switch to the battery then connect the lead you wish to break to the dummy post.I'm sure I've seen similiar devices in English magazines.
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Jeremy,
My Pertronix takes its red, positive feed from the positive feed into the ballast resistor.The ballast resistor on mine is a white ceranic box about 20mmx20mmx80mm adjacent to the coil.Look for it in the 12 V wire currently feeding into your coil.It's not shown on your sketch so I assume it's not included in the Pertronix circuit at present.The output wire from the ceramic resistor the goes to the coil positive terminal. The black, negative Pertronix lead goes to the negative coil lead.Its been a while since I installed it but from looking at my installation now I'd say it's intended to feed the Pertronix with the full 12V supply ,without losing any voltage through the ballast resistor.
Still reckon it's one of the best reliability mods I have made.
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I fitted a Pertronix Ignitor in 2006 and it was one of the best modifications I ever made with regard to reliability.I set the Ignitor air gap to 30 thou. and timed the engine to fire 11 degrees BTDC at idle speed with a timing light.I rotated the whole distributor body as Dave states clockwise to advance.It did need a fair bit of adjustment as I recall.I have a CP engine with no vacuum advance.I don't have any real pinging problems as long as I can get 98(RON) octane fuel.When I'm in the bush and can only get 95 RON I just have to back off on the throttle for a while.I didn't need to do any fine adjustment but I do have Advance/Retard arrows marked on the distributor.
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I used to think there was not much difference between isolating the earth lead and the supply lead , so I'd isolate the supply lead.Then one day I was "fishing" for a wire behind the firewall with a straightened coathanger.The coathanger wire contacted the battery positive lead and shorted against the bare earthed firewall,burning a coathanger wire imprint into my hand. Now I always isolate the earth-that removes a vast amount of uninsulated metal to potentially short out against as virtually everything on the supply side is already insulated.Given that it was six of one/half a dozen of the other it was enough to tip me into isolating the earth.
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Sorry Nick,when I saw the term "tell tale pipe" I assumed that you were referring to the "tell tale" bleed between the two seals on the pedestal.Because I have a Bosch fuel pump I'd overlooked the fact that the original pumps were Lucas.I find that with these cars there is always something to do,not that I mind as I started wanting an injected TR6 when I read the first road tests as a callow youth in 1969.For what it's worth today the cars have somewhat of a "hero" status with my baby boomer mates.
Regards,
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I had a similiar intermittent leak last year.The leak disappeared when the engine was hot.After fitting a changeover metering unit and new fuel return pipe failed to fix the leak,it was traced to an "O" ring on the fuel pump drive shaft at the base of the distributor pedestal.The leak appeared as a petrol film on the block above the oil gauge pressure tapping.Like most intermittent faults it would have been a lot cheaper had it been diagnosed correctly first time .
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Stallie.Good to hear of the power improvement.Before you back off the timing make sure that your fuel octane rating is correct.I run on 98 octane-its the highest I can get readily-Shell and Caltex service stations normally have it around Melbourne.
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Are you using a flashing discharge type timing light(about 40 years ago they were called a Xenon tube timing light)?I've never used a discharge timing light for static timing.I've used multimeters,test lamps and cigarette papers etc on the points for static timing but with a discharge timing light I always have the engine running as per the "Maintenance" section in the front of the Brown Book.If you want to check the timing statically use the method for the static distributor timing described under "Electrical" in the back of the Brown Book.The test lamp in this section is a humble 12V globe.After static timing I always recheck the timing with the engine running at low speed so that the centrifugal advance doesn't come in.This also ensures any backlash in the distributor drive system is accounted for.Note my PI engine has no vacuum advance connected to the distributor.I have known people in the past to retard the ignition to allow the engine to run on lower octane fuel -like when super was phased out in Australia.
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Tom,I wrote the above reply from memory before leaving for work.The term "pushing one side" meant one side of the belt triangle to increase belt tension and stop slip.That said I just tried rotating the engine with the belt tensioned "as is" and it will rotate slowly given the force that can be applied to the small plastic fan.I have engine bored to 2.7 litres with high compression pistons and find it difficult to rotate quickly against the engine compression.
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I tension the fan belt by pushing one side and turn the fan very slowly to rotate the engine if I leave the plugs in, faster with the plugs out.Depends on whether I'm changing the plugs anyway.What I feel is important is to make sure the engine is rotated in the normal operating direction so that all clearances in the distributer drive are taken up in the correct direction.
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I'd test the voltmeter by connecting it directly to a battery charger and check the reading is around 12V.Watch out you don't short out the battery charger leads in the process.
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I fitted a Pertronix Ignitor a number of years ago.I am very happy with it.I have a CP engine modified for hill climbing that now starts like a diesel.I found the installation instructions regarding suitable coils a bit daunting,but in the end I fitted the Ignitor,set the air gap to 30 thou then started and retimed the engine.The timing was a bit out after the change.I am very wary about leaving the ignition on with the engine not running as the instructions warn this may damage the coil and Ignitor.Still this is not much different to frying the points when you leave a conventional ignition switched on.
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The vacuum gauge readings on an engine drop with altitude.I'm told it's about 1 Inch Hg per thousand feet.Are you near sea level?
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Hi all, I did ask the Forum when the fitting of a Petronix Ignition module was discussed recently, if the use of this modern item improved the performance/reliability etc, but nobody seemed to reply.
Before I commit to buying one of these as I like the idea of replaceing what is really a points design that Noah would have had in the Arc if he'd fitted an engine, are there any comments. By the way Classicgarage.com are offerring these on sale at $68 +p&p. Rich
I fitted a Pertronix ignition after pushing the vehicle with a stalled engine in the rather steep lane behind my house led to a mangled driver's door and a new paint job.Compared to the previous points system I find starting almost diesel like.As recommended, I still carry the points set in the boot and I am careful to leave a warning note on the dashboard for service mechanics telling them not to leave the ignition on without the engine running-which seems to be easy to do in a 1969 CP with has the key in the centre of the dashboard.
Distributor advance / retarding
in TR6 Forum
Posted
Jeremy.That's good news.There's nothing wrong with points except the need to frequently clean and gap them then confirm the timing in a TR6.It's not the worst job in the world to do.I just got sick of having to do it every 1000 miles or so so I installed a Pertronix.I guess you will now have to decide which way to go.Regards.